America West/USAirways seniority list ??

[RichardFitzwell]

I was just talking to a former US Airways pilot tonight. He said the current proposal is to merge seniority lists 3 for 1. I didn't get a chance to ask him if that was 3 for 1 for USAirways or 3 for 1 for America West.

Anyone heard anything?

 

[Joey Bagodonutz]

I would assume it is 3 AWA to 1 USA since America west is buying them.

 

[iflyhigh]

As of last nights union meeting in PHX, there is no info on seniority list integration. I know several rumors are going around like, 3 to 1, 5 to 1, or relative seniority. Relative meaning a US Air pilot in the 50 percentile is in the 50 percentile on the intergrated list. Under this scenerio, there would be minimal training incurred and no buddy on either lists gets more than the other group.

As of last night, no official seniority lists have been exchanged between groups, so I highly doubt a decision has been made.

It will take at least a month or two get hammer out an integrated seniority list. (Just my opinion.)

 

[dojetdriver]

It doesn't really matter. As long as BOTH pilots groups get pissed off about it, it will be fair.

 

[PHXFLYR]

As of last nights union meeting in PHX, there is no info on seniority list integration. I know several rumors are going around like, 3 to 1, 5 to 1, or relative seniority. Relative meaning a US Air pilot in the 50 percentile is in the 50 percentile on the intergrated list. Under this scenerio, there would be minimal training incurred and no buddy on either lists gets more than the other group.

As of last night, no official seniority lists have been exchanged between groups, so I highly doubt a decision has been made.

It will take at least a month or two get hammer out an integrated seniority list. (Just my opinion.)

I wish I can share your enthusiam regarding the lenght of time it will take to come to some sort of agreement regarding senority intergration, but I think this one will be decided by an arbitrator.

PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

I would assume it is 3 AWA to 1 USA since America west is buying them.

Not quite...our management team WILL be running the "New" USAirways, but the funding is coming from 5 seperate outside investors. Either way, I think when it is all said and done the only thing left of today's USAirways will be the nameplate and the employees who decide to press on with the new company.Gonna be an interesting clash of cultures,to say the least.


PHXFLYR

 

[Doug Parker]

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Actually, the word was either 3 to 2 (which would pretty much be relative seniority) OR take the top 100 USAir guys and put them at the top of the list and go 1 for 1 after that.......................

I'll vote for 'B'





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[Heavy Set]

I would expect a lot of fences... You probably won't find an AWA pilot flying A330s to Gatwick any time soon and few USAirways pilots bidding the 757 out of PHX...

 

[Tomct]

All I can say is good luck to all and I hope there is not any furloughs!

 

[Cactus73]

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Actually, the word was either 3 to 2 (which would pretty much be relative seniority) OR take the top 100 USAir guys and put them at the top of the list and go 1 for 1 after that.......................

I'll vote for 'B'

.

There is NO word on the street, because they haven't exchanged lists. Period. You can talk to both merger committee's. They are in the process of certifying the lists. This takes time as they have to determine the status of every pilot on the list. AAA let's pilots on long term disability remain on the list until 60 even though they never intend on returning.

Assuming a PID is set in the near future, section 45 of the ALPA administrative manual specifies a 150 day time-line from the day the PID is declared to the decision of the arbitrator. I would be highly surprised if this time-line was even remotely followed.

For a Continental guy to make ratio statements is pure speculation and rumor. Same thing about our own guys making statements about fences and who is going to fly what. Fences aren't the answer to every problem and we may or may not see long term fences. They also create a lot of tension between the two groups. Fences also don't protect any pilot in a furlough situation.

Bottom line is that there is NOTHING ON THE TABLE from either side. The two committee's are working within ALPA merger policy and our new TA stipulates that the Company will accept a list that is created using ALPA merger policy.

 

[A330Driver]

Uh.... NO!

I would assume it is 3 AWA to 1 USA since America west is buying them.

Why does everyone keep saying that America West is buying US?


A group of investors are buying both company's!!! Without the investors neither airline had a great chance of surviving.

No one AIRLINE is buying the other.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Why does everyone keep saying that America West is buying US?


A group of investors are buying both company's!!! Without the investors neither airline had a great chance of surviving.

No one AIRLINE is buying the other.

Maybe neither airline had much of a chance surviving on their own,but you gotta admit you guys we're alot closer to the abyss than we were. But then again the original PanAm was around for 14 years,all of them unprofitable before they finally filed Chapter 11/7 and shut the doors.


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

All I can say is good luck to all and I hope there is not any furloughs!

Thanks Tomct.Appreciate it!! I think it's safe to say all of us , whether we are on the AWA or U side of the fence are hoping for the same.Especially after all the USAir folks have been through.

PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Assuming a PID is set in the near future, section 45 of the ALPA administrative manual specifies a 150 day time-line from the day the PID is declared to the decision of the arbitrator. I would be highly surprised if this time-line was even remotely followed.


Cactus,


What makes you think that? Do you think this will be done in less than 150 days or go beyond the 150 day timeline specified in Section 45?

PHXFLYR

 

[TWA Dude]

.OR take the top 100 USAir guys and put them at the top of the list and go 1 for 1 after that........................

That appears to be the hail mary pass the AWA MEC (not the Merger Committee) brought to the USAir MEC last week -- and it was rejected.

To reiterate: there are no official integration talks going on yet so anything you hear/read/see/imagine is completely rumor-mill material.

There does appear to be a willingness by the USA MEC to come to an agreement rather than go to arbitration but it's too soon to tell.

To reiterate something else: neither airline is buying the other and AWA is not a "savior". I know I'm no savior so I certainly don't deserve any reward. I hope neither pilot group gets set up as furlough-fodder like happened in a certain other airline integration.

 

[PHXFLYR]

I hope neither pilot group gets set up as furlough-fodder like happened in a certain other airline integration.

AMEN,bro!!!!


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

I was just talking to a former US Airways pilot tonight. He said the current proposal is to merge seniority lists 3 for 1. I didn't get a chance to ask him if that was 3 for 1 for USAirways or 3 for 1 for America West.

Anyone heard anything?

A FORMER USAir pilot? Now there's a source of accurate, up to date information for you.... How about talking to the ones who are still working there? Or better yet talking to a member of their MEC or Negotiating Comittee or ours for that matter?


PHXFLYR

 

[RichardFitzwell]

A FORMER USAir pilot? Now there's a source of accurate, up to date information for you.... How about talking to the ones who are still working there? Or better yet talking to a member of their MEC or Negotiating Comittee or ours for that matter?


PHXFLYR

Well PHXFLYR that's why I posted my question here. Everyone I know at USAir has been furloughed and I don't know anyone at AWA. I don't have the ability to communicate with either MEC being that I am at Continental.

The person I spoke to last night has been furloughed from the line and is now working in the training dept. The 3 for 1 is what he told me. Nothing more than rumor, hence my original question.

Industry consolidation may be coming and in my opinion the way your lists are merged could be similar to other possible mergers. I am sorry if I upset you in any way. Any future questions I have about this subject will be addressed directly to the experts, like yourself. Is that O.K. with you?

 

[Tejas-Jet]

IMHO...I really think it should be a stapled-Date of Hire combination.<sic>

Tejas

 

[Cactus73]

Assuming a PID is set in the near future, section 45 of the ALPA administrative manual specifies a 150 day time-line from the day the PID is declared to the decision of the arbitrator. I would be highly surprised if this time-line was even remotely followed.


Cactus,

What makes you think that? Do you think this will be done in less than 150 days or go beyond the 150 day timeline specified in Section 45?

PHXFLYR

At the LEC meeting the other night, they were of the opinion that 150 days is too short to get everything done. It doesn't mean they won't get it done in this time or less, but the list certification process is a long one. They have to send out a certified letter to every pilot on both lists and then give each pilot a chance to protest their seniority if they choose to do so. They also said the arbitrator/mediator isn't always available during this time period and meetings have to be scheduled if it gets this far. There is a set list of arbitrators listed in our transition agreement that must be used.

It is quite possible that they will come to a general agreement on how to integrate very quickly, but they still have to certify the lists regardless. This is to prevent lawsuits down the line.

As TWA Dude stated, an offer was made to the AAA MEC but it didn't include any list. It was an integration offer and they kindly rejected it. The merger committees were NOT involved and the ALPA integration process is moving forward. Talking to our merger chairman, he feels we have a good relationship with the AAA committee.

As for who is buying who? Read that 500 page book they sent to the AWA stockholders.