America West pilots to the pokey

[Yank McCobb]

I agree . . . . that you guys are a bunch of sanctimonious windbags.

Federal law governs aviation matters. They were punished . . . .they had their certificates revoked, and they lost their jobs. Florida, however, decides that this is easy publicity, and wants to try them on state charges, too. What about the constitutional protection from "double jeopardy"? Even a high-school student could tell you that this wouldn;t hold up on appeal (well, at least a high-school student educated outside of a Florida public school system).

It would be laughable, if it wasn;t so sad. Florida, the state where foster children are murdered while in state custody, the state where 100 year-old drivers can renew their licenses by mail, the state where the term "hanging chad" was coined . . . . yes, Florida found an opportunity to villainize these guys in the short term, until it gets overturned on appeal. Meanwhile, these guys, whose careers are finished, are out an additional $100,000. apiece fighting needless prosecution.

How many people have committed murder and been sentenced to less? How many people have committed rape and been sentenced to less? Give me a break. . . . and you sacntimonious clowns need to get over yourselves. It's guys like you that end up with f'ed up kids who realize the ridiculousness and the hypocisy of the standards you hold others to.

While your grandstanding and railing about the State of Florida sound really cool and all...what you are saying is just wrong. And by wrong, I mean incorrect.

Read (even a little bit) about the law and the definition of "double jeopardy" (which I admit I didn't do at first, but have recently done) and you will see how this does not even approach "double jeopardy" so that Constitutional protection simply does not apply in this case. If they appeal based on this defense, they will stand zero chance.

This gross error makes the rest of your post suspect, at best...regardless of it's merit.

 

[olympus593]

If anybody ever goes below DH and crash, I'll be on the jury to sentence you to 100 lifes sentence, since you decided to go below DH.
That it I'm moving to saoudi arabia....

 

[Clyde]

How's the view from up there Clyde? You sanctimonious pri*ks all do the exact same thing. Try and apply rational responses to guys who's brains do not operate on a rational level, due to alcoholism, genetics, whatever.

When you send these guys to jail after their lives are already destroyed, then its not just them and their families who pay the price for their mistakes, now we all do. Because now we all have to pay to house and feed them for the next few years. Community service would have been fine, but jail is a stupid, knee jerk reaction from a completely intolerant society. God help you if you ever step out of line. Somewhere out there, there is an unforgiving sactimonious pri*k just like you waiting to throw away the key.

And yes, some drunk jacka$$ broke my back in six places when I was in high school. (car crash). I still don't want every drunk thrown in the pokey. Especially these two, who have already lost everything. Its overkill.

Since you seemed to have missed the obvious, these guys are not in jail because they missed a crossing restriction or any other mistake that a human being is capable of doing while piloting an aircraft.

These two gentleman INTENTIONALLY chose to show up for duty INTOXICATED. That isn't your average line pilot mistake, and it certainly IS NOT in the job description of a professional.

You also seemed to have missed my post about giving people a second chance if they step forward and get help. These guys did not have to show up for this flight. They could have very easily have called in sick and blamed it on food poisoning or something.

Instead, they intenionally decided to risk the lives of everybody on that aircraft and potentially more lives by showing up in the condition that they did. That's criminal negligence. They made a choice and now they are going to have to deal with the consequences.

You think jail time is too harsh? Well, where do we draw the line?? Do we wait until the first fatal airliner crash because of alcohol? How about two? Ten maybe?


I think it's time for YOU to come down from YOUR high horse.

 

[Ty Webb]

Put the bottle down Ty! Are you this irrational in the jet too?

BBB

What do you mean "irrational"? What those two buffoons did was "irrational", and what the state of FL did was equally "irrational". I just call 'em like I see 'em.

And if you have to ask if I "fly like I post", then you really need to log off and get a real life, Chief.

 

[olympus593]

I've seen plenty of professional pilot not doing Checklist, What should we do to them??? About the AA crew who flew in a storm in Lit (maybe a little tired 15H on duty ) Who get the Gas Chamber? them??? The FAA 15H duty anyone??? The dispatcher??? He dispatch them!!!

5 year in jail is just nuts!!!

 

[Ty Webb]

Read (even a little bit) about the law and the definition of "double jeopardy" (which I admit I didn't do at first, but have recently done) and you will see how this does not even approach "double jeopardy" so that Constitutional protection simply does not apply in this case. If they appeal based on this defense, they will stand zero chance.

C'mon, Cobb . . . . . . it's still subject to interpretation. It still sounds to me like a typical instance of "how much justice can you afford?".

The Double Jeopardy Clause protects against multiple punishments for the same offense. Justices of Boston Municipal Court v. Lydon, 466 U.S. 294, 306 (1984).

However, stretching the bounds of logic, the courts have decided that since the state and federal governments are separate sovereigns and therefore successive prosecutions based on the same underlying conduct do not violate the Double Jeopardy Clause if the prosecutions are brought by separate sovereigns. See, e.g., U.S. v. Koon, 34 F.3d 1416, 1438 (9th Cir.'94).

But, double jeopardy may exist if the federal prosecutors were mere 'tools' of the state or that the federal proceeding was a 'sham' carried out at the behest of the state. Koon, at 1438.

They might have broken a few rules, or took a few liberties with their female party guests . . . . but I'm not going to sit here, and let you bad mouth the United States of America, Cobb.

 

[Eagleflip]

Ty Webb wrote:

It's guys like you that end up with f'ed up kids who realize the ridiculousness and the hypocisy of the standards you hold others to.

Ok. So my kids are screwed up and they understand the hypocracy of...whazzat? I lost you there...


Come on Ty! You can do better than that!

Any my kids are doing just fine, thanks.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty Webb wrote:


Ok. So my kids are screwed up and they understand the hypocracy of...whazzat? I lost you there...


Come on Ty! You can do better than that!

Any my kids are doing just fine, thanks.

I wasn't speaking to you, personally, EF, rather some of the Napolean complexes that seem to populate this industry.

Glad to know that your kids are OK . . . . this country needs all the well-balanced kids we can raise.

 

[RDG]

Since you seemed to have missed the obvious, these guys are not in jail because they missed a crossing restriction or any other mistake that a human being is capable of doing while piloting an aircraft.

These two gentleman INTENTIONALLY chose to show up for duty INTOXICATED. That isn't your average line pilot mistake, and it certainly IS NOT in the job description of a professional.

You also seemed to have missed my post about giving people a second chance if they step forward and get help. These guys did not have to show up for this flight. They could have very easily have called in sick and blamed it on food poisoning or something.

Instead, they intenionally decided to risk the lives of everybody on that aircraft and potentially more lives by showing up in the condition that they did. That's criminal negligence. They made a choice and now they are going to have to deal with the consequences.

You think jail time is too harsh? Well, where do we draw the line?? Do we wait until the first fatal airliner crash because of alcohol? How about two? Ten maybe?


I think it's time for YOU to come down from YOUR high horse.

Ya see Clyde? You just did it again. Trying to apply what a rational human being would do to a person who is incapable of rational thought. You will never get it.

 

[Green]

an interesting side note. I just spent a weekend with a couple doctors and they were shocked at how harsh the verdict was. They related stories of surgeons showing up for surgery drunk and just getting a slap on the wrist at best. They even knew one guy they met during their "substance abuse education" who had gotten caught four times working intoxicated and finally checked himself into treatment after blacking out on the highway driving home AFTER performing surgery. Much more of an old boys club in the medical profession where mistakes of this nature are kept hush hush.

 

[321 busdriver]

Dumb. But great avitar.

Has anyone ever violated a FAR or flown below mins? Equally risky yet sober, you should go to jail and do time.

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

Where's Johnny Cochran when you neeed him????


Oh yeah, Six Feet Under..................nevermind!

 

[A350]

All:

My lovely wife DVR'ed the sentencing hearings for me, just in case I wanted to watch.......she was quite fascinated with the whole proceeding. She is very intuitive and had lots of commentary. Suffice it to say, I was very hard on her opinion, until I watched it myself.

Hughes was contrite. You could see it in his eyes, his body language, his total demeanor screamed "I screwed up and I am sorry."

Cloyd, on the other hand, had his nose up in the air the entire proceeding. After he was given the max sentence, he was handcuffed and walked over to the jury box with Hughes to await a bailiff for processing. He was laughing, smiling, even appeared to cut up a bit. Hardly the attitude one has when they have been just given a 5 year hiatus from the general population.

I wouldn't count either of these guys out of the game just yet. Prowse from NWA retired on the Whale. If they are motivated enough, they can do it.

I used to think there were three things you could do in an airplane where you would never fly again. Fly drunk, crash, or damn near run out of fuel.

18 years in to my aviation career and I have seen all three and the perpetrators of all three are or were still flying when I was furloughed.

Go figure.

A350

 

[321 busdriver]

Before you post anything else, please take a basic English or grammar course. Better yet, take both!

I've seen plenty of professional pilot not doing Checklist, What should we do to them??? About the AA crew who flew in a storm in Lit (maybe a little tired 15H on duty ) Who get the Gas Chamber? them??? The FAA 15H duty anyone??? The dispatcher??? He dispatch them!!!

5 year in jail is just nuts!!!

 

[321 busdriver]

Ty, keep it simple. These guys messed up, got caught, and are going to get some time to think about it. I don't live in Fl., but I seriously doubt that other states would treat this any differently.

What do you mean "irrational"? What those two buffoons did was "irrational", and what the state of FL did was equally "irrational". I just call 'em like I see 'em.

And if you have to ask if I "fly like I post", then you really need to log off and get a real life, Chief.