America West pilots to the pokey

[MJG]

anyone that tests over the limit of .80 is more than a little impaired and not capable of making sound decisions

Trust me, you won't have to worry about anyone testing over .80, they'll be dead ! Sorry couldn't resist.

 

[Jimdandy]

They got what they deserved!!!!

I mean the Captain screwed up a month ago and still didn't learn.

IF YOU CAN'T LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES YOU WILL BE CONDEMNED TO REPEAT THEM.

For all of you fools comparing this to a DUI it is totally different we are being paid for one and second we are being implicitly trusted to provide safe transportation. Once we break our customers trust through willful Criminal misconduct we deserved have the spitt brought up and fried up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me guess all you fools supporting him voted for GW

 

[Booster]

Ultrarunner

They didn't violate and FL laws or statutes?

[font=&quot]The 2002/2004 [/font][font=&quot]Florida[/font][font=&quot] Statutes
[/font]

Title XLVI
CRIMES
​

Chapter 860
OFFENSES CONCERNING AIRCRAFT, MOTOR VEHICLES, VESSELS, AND RAILROADS
​

​

860.13 operation of aircraft while intoxicated or in careless or reckless manner; penalty.--

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person:

(a) To operate an aircraft in the air or on the ground or water while under the influence of:

1. Alcoholic beverages;

2. Any substance controlled under chapter 893;

3. Any chemical substance set forth in s. 877.111; or

(b) To operate an aircraft in the air or on the ground or water in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.

(2) In any prosecution charging careless or reckless operation of aircraft in violation of this section, the court, in determining whether the operation was careless or reckless, shall consider the standards for safe operation of aircraft as prescribed by federal statutes or regulations governing aeronautics.

(3) Violation of this section shall constitute a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(4) It shall be the duty of any court in which there is a conviction for violation of this statute to report such conviction to the Civil Aeronautics Administration for its guidance and information with respect to the pilot's certificate.

Chapter 775
DEFINITIONS; GENERAL PENALTIES; REGISTRATION OF CRIMINALS
​

View Entire Chapter
​

775.082 Penalties; applicability of sentencing structures; mandatory minimum sentences



3 (d) For a felony of the third degree, by a term of imprisonment not exceeding 5 years.


Violation of Fl law YES.

 

[321 busdriver]

Are you kidding me? We're not talking about a couple of pilots with SOME alcohol in them. A glass or two of wine, a few beers, a couple of drinks...no one has a problem on this board with that. These guys were F.....UP! You say you don't have a family..no kids. Well, I do, and sometimes they fly out of PHX. Don't try to defend what these guys did. They screwed up, got caught, and are going to jail. Hopefully the sentences will get reduced, but if you want to feel sorry for someone, feel sorry for their families. Your comparisons to runways, duty or flight time limitations really are lame.

I am also not defending these guys but I have to say, this is a big example of general society not understanding aviation.

OK these guys were operating impared but far worse things (read unsafe) happen every day in this bizz (leagal and unlegal).

He!! Landing 35 in PHL while they are using 27R is far more chancy than 2 pilots operating alittle inpared. How about working 14 plus hour days back to back (or more) with 8 hours of flying. Perfectly legal but we all know how useless we are in the cockpit when were burnt. Back when i flew a hard line at ALG I flew alot (some because I did use alot of sick time and some because I sometimes picked up flying) but in the summer when it's hot and you approach 100 hours per month I was almost useless some days. And my life outside of work is easy (no kids not married and I lived 5 min from the parking lot at my base), what about the guys flying 80 plus hours per month that drive several hours to show then fly a 12 hour duty day? What about getting up a 3 am and driving an hour to say EWR and commuting to CVG and starting a trip at 11am that doesn't end till 11pm that night after 6 hour and 5 legs of flying? Perfectly legal but way more dangerous than 2 pilots with some alchol in them.

What about working for a company, giving everything you have only to have them sell or transfer the aircraft to someone else who does it cheaper or to gain money for thier retention bonuses. How pissed off do you thing these guys are? Bet you it leads to some situations in the cockpit that are potentialy more dangerous than, once again, 2 pilots who drank the night before.

Same situation, company asks for more pay cuts, CX's pensions and CEO runs company into ground but gets away with 6 million. Bet your going to have some pretty pissed off employees that may not have their head in the game 100% on the job.

 

[Yank McCobb]

Are you kidding me? We're not talking about a couple of pilots with SOME alcohol in them. A glass or two of wine, a few beers, a couple of drinks...no one has a problem on this board with that. Your comparisons to runways, duty or flight time limitations really are lame.

Yep. Almost sounds like someone trying to justify and rationalize his own actions.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Also, isn't anyone bothered that the pilots were convicted in State court for a Federal offense?

Hey,
Not in the least, they were convicted of DUI (of a motor vehicle) a state offense, convicted in a state court, and will do time in a state prison, with a roomate named Bubba, who will want to dance nightly. The federal charges(which carry no jail time) will allow the FAA to revoke any and all certificates. You would think after all the previous alcohol/pilot exposures these guys would have gotten the message before this happened. Previous alcohol issues, alcoholisim, these should have been taken care of thru the EAP programs. Sympathy? NONE!
PBR

 

[OPECJet]

My problem is not with these guys getting a spanking for trying to fly after a hard night of partying. It is the precedent that has been set for a state to prosecute someone for breaking the rules in a federally regulated activity. I was not aware Florida had laws on the books for such occurrences. Thanks for posting it. I find it disturbing they exist.

Two sets of laws governing what happens in an airplane, and how they are punished is dangerous for all of us.

Nope, didn't vote for GW. Don't support these guys actions either.

 

[mystere]

I'm not defending what they did, they deserve some sort of jail/punishment.

BUT...They were willing to plead guilty in exchange for 14 months in prison. The prosecutor went along with the deal, but the judge rejected the agreement.

They were forced to court and their lawyers had to put on a defense. For the prosecutor to mock their defense after they were willing to plead guilty is pure grandstanding for the TV cameras.

The judge also lectured Cloyd as if he was a kid getting punished for stealing another kids lunch money. I expect more professionalism from a judge.

Also, isn't anyone bothered that the pilots were convicted in State court for a Federal offense?

I expect more professionalism from a licensed pilot....they got what they deserved.

 

[Focus]

Double Jeopardy? Geez, thats a stretch. An ATP, Commercial or any other aviation license is an earned privledge. We do not have a right to these licenses just as we dont have rights to our Motor Vehicle License. They are simply privledges issued by the respectable governing agency.

These licenses are privledges and as such may be revoked by the issuing agency when any standard is not upheld by the licensee.

So the Double Jeopardy argument is mute. Revocation of the licenses by the FAA is simply taking away their privledges.

The sentencing yesterday in Florida without question is severe. An extremely strong message has been sent to our community and we would be wise to take inventory of ourselves instead of attempting to justify why this should not have happend.

Anyhow, enough said....Im almost starting to sound like a lawyer. We have all worked hard to get to where we are. Dont throw it away for one lousy night of partying.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

This is not the case AT ALL. You are severely misinformed or just don't understand.

They were prosecuted, found guilty and sentenced for violating the STATE OF FLORIDA statute against operating a vehicle while impaired.

The dangerous precedent that has been set is that of double jeopardy. They had already been prosecuted by the federal government by having their certificates revoked. Now they are punished again by the State of Florida for the same occurance. But this is NOT a case of "a state government prosecuting for federal crimes". The state government prosecuted for violation of that state's laws. Check the docket and see what they were tried and found guilty of. It will not say a thing about "federal crimes".

Yank,
There are no jail penalties attached to the FARs, they were tried and convicted in a state court for violation of state laws. the FAR sanction of loss of certificates does not constitute "double jeopardy" which applies to trials with the possibility of jail time(loss of liberty, with due process). The loss of certificates is an administrative process which allows the FAA to revoke a privelege. On a side note remember if you wank a plane while taxiing too fast you can be cited for "unsafe speed" a prima facia speed law, basically if you had an incident it would be argued you could have avoided if if you were moving at a slower speed, this would come from the airport poilce dept. via a citation. Every civil airport is operated by a state or municipal agency, the FAA owns the airspace not the ground, "from the surface to...". What happens if you are violated of careless and reckless? loss of certificates, a privelege.
PBR

 

[Yank McCobb]

So the Double Jeopardy argument is mute.

Anyhow, enough said....Im almost starting to sound like a lawyer. .

Mute? Does that mean that the Double Jeopardy argument can not talk?

Sound like a lawyer? Not really. I think most lawyers would know the difference in "mute" and "moot".

 

[Focus]

Nice catch Yank, you got the message and thats whats important.

 

[Yank McCobb]

You are all correct about my poor choice of terms in "double jeopardy". I was more concerned about the precedent being set of using state laws to prosecute violations regarding the operation of aircraft. There could be a whole set of different worms released from numerous cans here.

 

[Yank McCobb]

Nice catch Yank, you got the message and thats whats important.

Yep.. just killing time my friend.

 

[Cosmo1999]

I dont see how anyone has sympathy for these guys. The blatantly violated state and fedral law. I mean come on just put down the damn glass of beer at a resonable hour(i.e at least 12 hours before show) and only have one or two. I can almost certainly guarantee you wont run into problems like this unless your F/A is really light haha. Operating an aircraft under the influence should carry stiff penalties.. These guys deserve jail time and to lose their tickets for life. Now the judge in the case most definately had it out for them from the start. You have many more lives in your hand operating an aircraft than you do operating a motor vehicle. BTW I think the DUI penalties should be much stiffer for anyone I.E no more probation or plea baragains. States claim they are getting tough on DUI but they really arent that tough at all.