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America West pilots to the pokey

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wmuflyguy said:
The point was he had 2 seperate trials under 2 different portions of the legal system.

Yep, the criminal system and the civil system. We're subject to both, and can take advantage of both.

I have no problem with that.
 
How's the view from up there Clyde? You sanctimonious pri*ks all do the exact same thing. Try and apply rational responses to guys who's brains do not operate on a rational level, due to alcoholism, genetics, whatever.

When you send these guys to jail after their lives are already destroyed, then its not just them and their families who pay the price for their mistakes, now we all do. Because now we all have to pay to house and feed them for the next few years. Community service would have been fine, but jail is a stupid, knee jerk reaction from a completely intolerant society. God help you if you ever step out of line. Somewhere out there, there is an unforgiving sactimonious pri*k just like you waiting to throw away the key.

And yes, some drunk jacka$$ broke my back in six places when I was in high school. (car crash). I still don't want every drunk thrown in the pokey. Especially these two, who have already lost everything. Its overkill.
 
I must agree with Clyde here, gents. Yes, these two men have lost (almost) everything, but the basics still apply nevertheless. You have to pay the price for your actions. If either or both of them are alcoholics, didn't they make similar choices many times before during a layover? Yet they chose to attempt to fly while legally intoxicated They had a choice

No one is acting like God here. They erred and now they must pay the price for their actions. The judge sentenced them according to his take on it. Too harsh? Since I don't know the sentencing guidelines in Florida, I simply can't say with conviction (pardon the pun) what the right answer is.

No one is disputing that some others should have gone to jail for as long or longer for their particular crime; this thread isn't about that problem. If you want to rant about the inherent unfairness in the judicial system, start a thread on that topic.

Don't all jail times send a message, good or bad, to the perspective audience? No matter what your answer is to that question, the simple truth is that these pilots acted irresponsibly and endangered many, many people's lives. They helped create an atmosphere of jaundice toward the pilot population. They sullied the name of a proud airline.

They deserved this sentence, pure and simple.
 
Eagleflip said:
No one is acting like God here. They erred and now they must pay the price for their actions. The judge sentenced them according to his take on it. Too harsh? Since I don't know the sentencing guidelines in Florida, I simply can't say with conviction (pardon the pun) what the right answer is.


I agree . . . . that you guys are a bunch of sanctimonious windbags.

Federal law governs aviation matters. They were punished . . . .they had their certificates revoked, and they lost their jobs. Florida, however, decides that this is easy publicity, and wants to try them on state charges, too. What about the constitutional protection from "double jeopardy"? Even a high-school student could tell you that this wouldn;t hold up on appeal (well, at least a high-school student educated outside of a Florida public school system).

It would be laughable, if it wasn;t so sad. Florida, the state where foster children are murdered while in state custody, the state where 100 year-old drivers can renew their licenses by mail, the state where the term "hanging chad" was coined . . . . yes, Florida found an opportunity to villainize these guys in the short term, until it gets overturned on appeal. Meanwhile, these guys, whose careers are finished, are out an additional $100,000. apiece fighting needless prosecution.

How many people have committed murder and been sentenced to less? How many people have committed rape and been sentenced to less? Give me a break. . . . and you sacntimonious clowns need to get over yourselves. It's guys like you that end up with f'ed up kids who realize the ridiculousness and the hypocisy of the standards you hold others to.
 
Ty Webb said:
I agree . . . . that you guys are a bunch of sanctimonious windbags.

Give me a break. . . . and you sacntimonious clowns need to get over yourselves. It's guys like you that end up with f'ed up kids who realize the ridiculousness and the hypocisy of the standards you hold others to.


Put the bottle down Ty! Are you this irrational in the jet too?

BBB
 
Ty Webb said:
I agree . . . . that you guys are a bunch of sanctimonious windbags.

Federal law governs aviation matters. They were punished . . . .they had their certificates revoked, and they lost their jobs. Florida, however, decides that this is easy publicity, and wants to try them on state charges, too. What about the constitutional protection from "double jeopardy"? Even a high-school student could tell you that this wouldn;t hold up on appeal (well, at least a high-school student educated outside of a Florida public school system).

It would be laughable, if it wasn;t so sad. Florida, the state where foster children are murdered while in state custody, the state where 100 year-old drivers can renew their licenses by mail, the state where the term "hanging chad" was coined . . . . yes, Florida found an opportunity to villainize these guys in the short term, until it gets overturned on appeal. Meanwhile, these guys, whose careers are finished, are out an additional $100,000. apiece fighting needless prosecution.

How many people have committed murder and been sentenced to less? How many people have committed rape and been sentenced to less? Give me a break. . . . and you sacntimonious clowns need to get over yourselves. It's guys like you that end up with f'ed up kids who realize the ridiculousness and the hypocisy of the standards you hold others to.

While your grandstanding and railing about the State of Florida sound really cool and all...what you are saying is just wrong. And by wrong, I mean incorrect.

Read (even a little bit) about the law and the definition of "double jeopardy" (which I admit I didn't do at first, but have recently done) and you will see how this does not even approach "double jeopardy" so that Constitutional protection simply does not apply in this case. If they appeal based on this defense, they will stand zero chance.

This gross error makes the rest of your post suspect, at best...regardless of it's merit.
 
If anybody ever goes below DH and crash, I'll be on the jury to sentence you to 100 lifes sentence, since you decided to go below DH.
That it I'm moving to saoudi arabia....
 
RDG said:
How's the view from up there Clyde? You sanctimonious pri*ks all do the exact same thing. Try and apply rational responses to guys who's brains do not operate on a rational level, due to alcoholism, genetics, whatever.

When you send these guys to jail after their lives are already destroyed, then its not just them and their families who pay the price for their mistakes, now we all do. Because now we all have to pay to house and feed them for the next few years. Community service would have been fine, but jail is a stupid, knee jerk reaction from a completely intolerant society. God help you if you ever step out of line. Somewhere out there, there is an unforgiving sactimonious pri*k just like you waiting to throw away the key.

And yes, some drunk jacka$$ broke my back in six places when I was in high school. (car crash). I still don't want every drunk thrown in the pokey. Especially these two, who have already lost everything. Its overkill.

Since you seemed to have missed the obvious, these guys are not in jail because they missed a crossing restriction or any other mistake that a human being is capable of doing while piloting an aircraft.

These two gentleman INTENTIONALLY chose to show up for duty INTOXICATED. That isn't your average line pilot mistake, and it certainly IS NOT in the job description of a professional.

You also seemed to have missed my post about giving people a second chance if they step forward and get help. These guys did not have to show up for this flight. They could have very easily have called in sick and blamed it on food poisoning or something.

Instead, they intenionally decided to risk the lives of everybody on that aircraft and potentially more lives by showing up in the condition that they did. That's criminal negligence. They made a choice and now they are going to have to deal with the consequences.

You think jail time is too harsh? Well, where do we draw the line?? Do we wait until the first fatal airliner crash because of alcohol? How about two? Ten maybe?


I think it's time for YOU to come down from YOUR high horse.





 
Big Beer Belly said:
Put the bottle down Ty! Are you this irrational in the jet too?

BBB


What do you mean "irrational"? What those two buffoons did was "irrational", and what the state of FL did was equally "irrational". I just call 'em like I see 'em.

And if you have to ask if I "fly like I post", then you really need to log off and get a real life, Chief.
 
I've seen plenty of professional pilot not doing Checklist, What should we do to them??? About the AA crew who flew in a storm in Lit (maybe a little tired 15H on duty ) Who get the Gas Chamber? them??? The FAA 15H duty anyone??? The dispatcher??? He dispatch them!!!

5 year in jail is just nuts!!!
 

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