Am West won't allow 190 regional flying

[3blade]

When was the last time you were on a CRJ900. Some of them have first class, and yes unless you are 6'8'' you can stand up on them.

When is the last time you were on a 170? its a huge difference. No comparison.

 

[410dude]

Surplus, quit your whining. You are a comair lifer/loser who wants to get into Delta via the backdoor.

 

[Doug Parker]

Why do all of you RJ dorks get such a Hard-on over going to 410 ???


A lot of the Bizjets do it daily and a few make 510.................

 

[jbDC9]

Why do all of you RJ dorks get such a Hard-on over going to 410 ???

A lot of the Bizjets do it daily and a few make 510.................

If you're referencing 410dude's name, I believe it's called sarcasm. There's quite a bit of it stewing on this board.

As for the thread, the more I read from Surplus and the RJDC, the more I'm convinced he's delusional, off the deep end, or whatever you want to call it. Surplus, do you really think that the regional pilots need job protection from mainline? Are you smoking crack? Last time I looked, the "regionals" are growing by leaps and bounds, hiring by the hundreds, while the mainlines are shrinking and losing flying to the small jet providers. Tell us again why you should be allowed to grow even more and get even bigger jets... no wait, don't bother, it just wouldn't make any sense.

If you want bigger jets, quit Comair, get out from under the DL codeshare and start your own airline; either that or apply to SWA, CAL, FDX, etc. If you want to stay there, quit your whining and deal with the mainline scope clause. I gotta agree with General Lee on this one, it sounds like you were too lazy to try and get on at a mainline or "big jet" airline... but now you want it anyway. Gimme gimme, me me me. You sound like a spoiled brat who wants a big shiny jet but doesn't want to work for it.

Get over it already.

 

[BenderGonzales]

"You sound like a spoiled brat who wants a big shiny jet but doesn't want to work for it."

Be careful. On Flightinfo.com -- where you have pilots who chose PFT, went to "the Academy" or other bridge program, who had less than 1500 hours before suddenly being thrust from a Seminole into an RJ and who would sell their own mother to feed their SJS habit -- you might accidentally hit a little close to home.

 

[surplus1]

Surplus, while I agree with you just about 100% on how this whole mess (alpa) got started, Republic will not lose anything! They do not have the planes (yet) so how have they lost anything?

I agree with that. Now, since the AWA pilots do not have any E190s either, using your logic, how will they loose anything if they don't get them? Answer, they won't.

Where does that leave us? = The AWA guys "want" them for their future potential benefit. There's nothing wrong with that and it is no different from why the CHQ/REP guys should "want" them. The reason for "wanting" them is identical on both sides of the fence = more job security. Neither "want" is any more justified than the other.

Now is there some logic in your reasoning that says that AWA pilots are "entitled" to more job security than CHQ/REP pilots? And please don't tell me the reason is because its better for the regional pilots who will "get more mainline jobs". That's just pure baloney.

AWA was on shaky ground and AAA is bankrupt. The "new and improved" airline that will come out of this merger will still be on very shaky ground and there is no guarantee whatever how long it will be around or what future potential it will actually have.

I don't want it to fail because I don't want anyone to lose his job, but the fact is that large "mainline" carriers offer no security at all for any pilot near the bottom of the list.

The guys that will lose, the almost 1000 jobs at the division. They are losing their jobs. I think somebody being shown the street is more detrimental, than somebody not being hired.

I presume you make reference to the AAA guys. If so, I agree again. I would have no problem with them trying to hold on to anything they have or anything they may get. I don't afford that status to the AWA folks. They aren't trying to keep what they have, they're trying to get more.

In fact I think the AWA folks are a lot more worried (or they should be) about what will happen to them if they can't keep the AAA guys from getting the credit due for their seniority. You can better your bottom dollar that they'll be fighting with everything they can to make sure that no AAA guy gets any seniority higher than theirs and cussing the arbitrator that makes the final award for years to come. That's how much they'll be worrying about how many AAA pilots might lose their jobs; in other words, not at all.

I'm not new to this business FR8mstr, I know how it works in public and I know how it works behind the scenes. BTDT and got the T-shirt.

 

[crashpad]

Be careful. On Flightinfo.com -- where you have pilots who chose PFT, went to "the Academy" or other bridge program, who had less than 1500 hours before suddenly being thrust from a Seminole into an RJ and who would sell their own mother to feed their SJS habit -- you might accidentally hit a little close to home.

It does'nt matter, after consolidation of all the big boys Feeders will be limited to turbo-props and 50-seaters or less. The dream of flying bigger aeroplanes for the feeders is dream soon to be crushed by those of us who believe in safety first.

 

[surplus1]

My propoganda is more entertaining.

... Happy now? I'm entertained!

And, it actually makes sense.

Really? You sure fooled me, but then that's to be expected; after all I'm only a regional pilot and I should know that pronoucements from mainline pilots like you make more sense; right? You can dazzle the kids General but pulling the wool over my eyes is way above your paygrade.

The RJDC is full of lazy pilots who want more without having to interview for it.

That's right General, we're all foaming at the mouth for the opportunity to be in your mansion so we can share in the foreclosure. Tell me, how do you cope with all the illusions of grandeur you have on a daily basis? What size is your hat .... 10 or 12?

ALPA has a few problems, but without them we would have been $crewed even more a long time ago. Look, you don't see the Regional airline pilots dropping ALPA, do you?

I bet you'd just love it if CMR pilots would drop ALPA wouldn't you? Bet you think that would give you carte blanche to screw us whenever you choose. Well, I'll tell you what, we're smart enough to know that it would so don't hold your breath, ok? I think when it comes to leaving ALPA your group is likely to get there way ahead of mine. Isn't that what your group likes to do when you don't get your way; threaten to leave? I've seen you all play that card more than once. That strategy works with DW, but not with us.

ALPA, unfortunately, has a lot more than a "few" problems and virtually all of them come from the "Legacy" seniority lists. Nevertheless it's still worth salvaging. When you've been around long enough to know a little more about ALPA maybe you'll wise up and help to fix it. But yeah, I realize that's wishful thinking. When you're part of the problem, which you are, I shouldn't expect you to be part of the solution too.

Hey, I paid up when Comair went on strike, and look what that brought us......A whole lotta thanks.

Geeze, and I thought you paid because we were "brothers". Silly me, I should have known you wanted something in return. What did you want General, captain seats for your furloughed new hires? Come on now own up; what was it that you wanted that you didn't get?

Did you want preferential hiring ahead of your furloughed brethren from other ALPA carriers? Did you get mad because we had the same rules for you as we had for them? Did you feel you were entitled to more? Tell us General, what was it you expected in return for doing what every other ALPA pilot did wihout a single complaint, save yours?

Did you want more than a furloughed USAir pilot, or United pilot, or TWA pilot, or did you just think you should get more that a fourloughed ACA pilot, EGL pilot or Midway pilot? Did you just want a hug or did you think you had bought something more?

Come on now, tell me what entitled you to more and tell me how much more you paid than the others. I'd really like to know just what you think made you more "special" than all the others. What was the pay back that you expected for your "brotherly love"? Don't keep it a secret man, tell us.

I'll give you credit for one thing. Out of all the ALPA airlines that "paid", and all the non-ALPA airlines that voluntarily gave your airline is the ONLY one that ever expected or asked for anything in return. Congratulations! That says a lot for your character. You should be proud. Tell me, whatever happend to your once-upon-a-time reputation as gentlemen? Never mind, you wouldn't understand or know.

I am glad the AWA pilots figured out that the CHQ E190s should be left to mainline.

Why is that General? Is it because you "feel" for the AWA pilots, or is it because that's what you want for yourself? You sure you don't have a hidden agenda of self-interest or is this just one of your many sacrifices "for the good of the profession"?

Like I said before buddy, save your yarns for those that are still wet behind the ears. I'm not it the least bit dazzled by your BS and you should know that by now. There's not a single thing that you have that I want, past, present or future; so you're barking up the wrong tree.

Where will the line be drawn? Not sure in this Chap 11 environment, but most pilots already know the answer, and the few that are giddy about it know they would bust any interview.

I don't know where the line will be drawn either; I just know that it won't be drawn on the basis of dictates from you. When the chips are down, I would think it will be drawn by the Company wherever they choose to draw it and both of us will have to live with the result, like it or not. If I were you, I wouldn't count my chickens before they hatch.

Truth is General you don't know a bit more about why the chicken crosses the road than I do. Like it or not, and I don't, we're both in this crap together. It's left to be seen which stain will come out first in the wash. I hope that nobody loses too much, and yes, that includes you too.

As for whatever you mean by "bust any interview" I don't have a clue. So enjoy the "I fooled him" feeling that gives you.

A word of advice; before you start crowing about your victory, wait 'till the game is over. Many a noisy rooster has been known to lose his head for crowing too early.

 

[IFlyLow]

I don't post on here much, but I have to for this... Is it just me, or does anyone else think surplus1 has seriously lost it? These delusional ramblings of his, I swear, are taking him farther and farther away from reality.

 

[surplus1]

The General is not trying to take back your 70 seaters,

First of all the General has nothing at all to do with that type of decision. Also the General doesn't know whether or not his MEC has been trying to take back our 70-seaters. He just believes whatever they tell him and they don't tell the truth.

I understand why you think that PCL_128 but I also know that you have not been exposed to any real knowledge of what happens behind closed doors, and no, I'm not guessing. There are some things that I just can't say in public.

What I will say is that the Delta MEC has been actively trying to prevent my airline from operating that aircraft since the day we placed the order for it, which was BEFORE, Delta Air Lines bought my company. You should also know that when we placed the order, it did NOT violate the Delta pilots' scope clause. Since that time, they changed their scope clause (because they failed in the effort to take it completely) to impose a limit, for all of DCI, of 57 aircraft total. Comair's order, before it became a Delta subsidiary, was for 90 of those aircraft for the exclusive use of Comair only (not shared with everybody and his brother). We did not place that order with Delat's money, we placed it with our own money. Those changes did harm us, as pilots, to the tune of millions of dollars. We don't intend to eat that unless somebody makes us and that somebody isn't going to be ALPA or the Delta MEC, not matter how long it takes.

There's a lot more than that, but there is no point in discussing it here.
Perhaps one day you will have the opportunity to see what has really gone on, in secret, behind the scenes. At that time you will be able to to comprehend who has been trying to do what to whom and why.

Meanwhile, I understand that you can only form opinions based on what you see. One day you will learn that the General's MEC is well "cloaked" like the Romulans of Star Trek. What you see, is not what you get. Let's just say that a thief who comes by night always thinks that the darkness hides what he's up to, but he always leaves something behind as evidence of his efforts.

I'm not trying to hijack this thread and make it a CMR deal. This is about CHQ. So lets forget about Comair.

Who is being harmed by the AWA pilots preventing the further outsourcing of their flying?

The answer is no one at this point. The AWA pilots have a right to try and I do not fault them for trying. I don't know their contract, but it seems logical that if they already had those rights they would have no need to "negotiate" them. If they have to negotiate, then that means they do not have those rights secured. You don't negotiate what you already have, outside of Section 6, unless you have to or you want to.

No regional pilot will be furloughed as a result of this. No one will take a pay cut. No one is harmed in any way.

That is all true. Now, since AWA does not now operate this aircraft type, they aren't going to take a pay cut, they aren't going to be furloughed or harmed in any way either. CHQ has no contract with America West. They don't stand to lose anything that they already have. So why are they meddling in somebody elses business?

Bottom line = they just want the aircraft. Nothing wrong with that. Everybody wants a new aircraft if they can get it. Before they found out that CHQ had a potential deal with USAirways to fly it, they weren't negotiating anything. They're only doing it now because they want it for themselves, instead of CHQ.

Why is it wrong for CHQ/REP pilots to want it also? Why should they not want to complete the deal they had with U? I don't see why you think that AWA pilots have any more "right" to that aircraft than CHQ pilots do.

Why can't the Company put the aircraft where they want to? Why does the deal have to be canceled because AWA may eventually merge with U? Are the AWA pilots wearing invisible halos or something?

If this was an airplane that AWA already had or had on order, I would be on their side all the way, but they don't operate it and their company has not ordered it. So on what basis do you choose one in preference to the other?

If there is anyone that has the potential of being harmed by this is the U pilots, not AWA. Why don't I hear something about them?