ALPA to uphold and defend AAA/HP seniority list

[TWA Dude]

JT8D: Which old job? You mean at AA?

 

[JT8D]

JT8D: Which old job? You mean at AA?

No HP.

...wether you guys ( HP) wanted this merger or not you guys will be affected by what East does at this point...and right now they have the 1000 yard stare and are threatening to "burn the house down".

HP guys just might find that instead of bigger airplanes and more destinations they are instead updating their resume.

Honestly...how much more bad news (no fault of HP guys) can these guys take?

I wouldn't blame them if they did "burn the house down".

 

[Tejas-Jet]

On the other thread someone said there was a Piedmont 97 hire below some America West pilots

You mean Piedmont the commuter? ...or Piedmont the major airline that was named airline of the year in 1985?

If it is the latter, Piedmont ( the major) was absorbed by US Air in 1989. There are no Piedmont 1997 hires.

At the commuter...yes

 

[TWA Dude]

...wether you guys ( HP) wanted this merger or not you guys will be affected by what East does at this point...and right now they have the 1000 yard stare and are threatening to "burn the house down".

Whether we wanted the merger or not is irrelevent. CEOs make these decisions, they profit and almost all employees suffer. If the Easties decide to burn down the house that's their choice and they have no right to put it on the West's shoulders.

HP guys just might find that instead of bigger airplanes and more destinations they are instead updating their resume.

Sounds like a threat to me. Think we should give in to extortion?

Honestly...how much more bad news (no fault of HP guys) can these guys take?

Honestly, that's not my problem. How much sympathy would there have been for us if Nicolau had awarded something close to DOH (ie, stapled 2/3 of us)?

I wouldn't blame them if they did "burn the house down".

To deliberately cause one's own employer to go out of business out of spite is the epitome of selfishness. I'll bet there are thousands of non-pilot USAirways employees who actually wish to remain employed and who couldn't care less how the pilots' seniority ends up.

My guess: the AAA pilots will not burn their airline down and if they attempt to certify a differnent union they will fail.

 

[JT8D]

Whether we wanted the merger or not is irrelevent. CEOs make these decisions, they profit and almost all employees suffer. If the Easties decide to burn down the house that's their choice and they have no right to put it on the West's shoulders.Sounds like a threat to me. Think we should give in to extortion?Honestly, that's not my problem. How much sympathy would there have been for us if Nicolau had awarded something close to DOH (ie, stapled 2/3 of us)?To deliberately cause one's own employer to go out of business out of spite is the epitome of selfishness. I'll bet there are thousands of non-pilot USAirways employees who actually wish to remain employed and who couldn't care less how the pilots' seniority ends up.

My guess: the AAA pilots will not burn their airline down and if they attempt to certify a differnent union they will fail.

I don't need a debate here...you asked a question. It was "if we give the East higher fences, what will we get in return?" My response was "your old job back' as in the one you are currently enjoying.

I could give a sh1t less when it gets right down to it...I'm not employed by AWA or AAA...

If you do stay in business it will be a hell hole in a mixed cockpit...trust me...I've been there...takes ALL the fun out of flying.

Good luck to ya...

 

[skiandsurf]

Question.....When USAir bought Allegany, Peidmont, PSA and who ever else I left out, how did they merge the seniority lists ???

 

[A350]

I will give you a clue......

DOH

A350

 

[cactusboy53]

Ski;
I couldn't tell you, but I am sure that the decisions are archived by the federal mediation body.

I will say this each and every one is different. DOH may have been part of the merger policy back then to some degree. It is not right now.

If you read the Nicolau award in it's entirety, you will see how the award was done. You will read how the pilot neutrals felt that the ALPA Merger policy was largely followed.

The AAA Merger Committee started out trying to explain the existing ALPA Merger policy to thier pilots (there was a specific e-mail sent out May 2005). The AAA MEC decided to go for DOH.

During joint negotiations they stayed with the plan.

They jointly agreed upon Mediator/Arbitrator Geo. Nicolau. They chose thier pilot neutral and we chose ours. They signed documents that stated that they would be willing to abide by BINDING ARBITRATION if mediation was at an impass (no text stating best 2 out of 3 or automatic DO-OVER).

After being advised by the Mediator that DOH was not a tenable position, they stayed with the plan.

After being advised by the Arbitrator that DOH was not a tenable postion, they stayed with the plan.

The plan didn't work. The arbitration went by ratio/relative seniority (regardless of who was in kindergarden, gestation, conception, etc.).

Why are we wasting time debating something that is done? Why not focus our energies getting $$ out of US Airways and making it a sucessful carrier? With the "Burn it to the Ground" mentality, we may all lose our jobs. How's that going to help a 18.2 year FO that used to be a captain pay for his/her lifestyle?

It's time to put the big pants on and move on. If we do this right, the East could see a decent raise, increase in vacation days, better work schedule and other benefits. We could also see some growth (so far unannounced). OR the pilot groups can remain separate. If we remain separate...I get a decent 90+ hour line, plenty of days off to golf, 3 weeks of vacation, OK pay (but, Man! Could it be better!). No skin off my nose.

 

[TWA Dude]

Question.....When USAir bought Allegany, Peidmont, PSA and who ever else I left out, how did they merge the seniority lists ???

ALPA Merger Policy. Worked then; works now.

 

[Guppiedriver]

Pretty much stayed out of this ordeal lately, but I wonder if any AWA pilots might explain to me what would be the problem with a fence running along, say, the Mississippi.

According to every post I've ever read, none of you guys wanted this merger, so what would it matter if you never flew here in the east?

I've heard all about the horrible stagnation you've had there in the west, but I don't know of any other legacy pilot who would have much sympathy. Stagnation nearly everywhere else is and has been much worse, so you guys would move up reasonably well, right?

Going by Doug's words (yes, he was sober at the time), AWA is certainly better off with the addition of east revenues and reach, so, what would be wrong with all of us just staying put? It doesn't seem like anything would have been taken away from you boys, and all those ex-PSA guys living in Temecula won't jump into the PHX or LAS base.

I think it will be better for the airline in many ways, too....but that's a whole new thread.

So, flame suit is being zipped up....right....now......there it is! All right....go ahead.

I agree with you on one thing only.....your choice of avatars. Long live the G.O.A.T.