ALPA to uphold and defend AAA/HP seniority list

[skiandsurf]

The USAir guys feel that they got screwed by the AmWest guys. The AmWest guys say that they kept the USAir guys from the unemployment line, "and should be lucky to have a job". I think that the USAir guys should take it a step further, and run them all out a job, and then go fly for Skybus.

I do think that seniority should have some merit. I heard that with the new seniority list, there is a AmWest pilot who was 9 years old when the USAir pilot got hired in 1989, and now the 9 yr old is senior to the 1989 new hire.

The USAir guy will never upgrade to captain, so he might as well run this airline out, and go to Skybus or Virgin America.

 

[vetrider]

The youngest birthdate I've seen on the west is 1978.

 

[Beetle007]

On the other thread someone said there was a Piedmont 97 hire below some America West pilots?

If that is true then it is possible that an America West pilot was 9 when the Piedmont pilot got hired.

 

[vetrider]

We on the west have people who will never make captain due to their age no matter how the seniority is worked out. An acquaintance from a previous carrier retired a year and a half ago from the right seat here on the west.

Likewise some of the 517 under Nicolau were born as late as 58 and 59.

Some things are gonna be outa whack no matter how one slices it. I'm getting a little tired of hearing the east's rhetoric myself, not to mention some of their pieces in the media basically calling all of us out west inexperienced rookies.

 

[cactusboy53]

Ski;
Seniority did come into play. Relative seniority. I lost a couple of percentage points and my upgrade has been delayed to ??. Am I crying? NO.

Let's move on and get the money out of Doug's pocket. Binding Arbitration that was agreed upon by BOTH Merger Committee's is exactly that. Or should we try best 2 out of 3, 3 out of 5.......

 

[eaglefly]

ALPA merger policy specifically states that when an award is delivered by the arbitrator (Section 45; H; 5; b and I; 1):

• Award of the Arbitration Board shall be final and binding on all parties.
• The arbitration and shall be defended by ALPA.
• The merged seniority list will be presented to management and ALPA will use all reasonable means at its disposal to compel the company to accept and implement the merged seniority list.

This seems to be rather CUT and DRIED to me. Failure to do anything other that what is stated in the ALPA bylaws is an invite for serious legal problems. What about all of the other mergers?

I think there will be a SMALL percentage of West pilots willing to go to the "City of Brotherly Love" if for no other reason than the rants and attitudes. A small number of East pilots will transfer to PHX or LAS for quality of life. You guys will largely get your East upgrades....Why don't you give it a shot??

Agreed.

Done deal. Game over. Move on.

 

[BeCareful!]

Pretty much stayed out of this ordeal lately, but I wonder if any AWA pilots might explain to me what would be the problem with a fence running along, say, the Mississippi.

According to every post I've ever read, none of you guys wanted this merger, so what would it matter if you never flew here in the east?

I've heard all about the horrible stagnation you've had there in the west, but I don't know of any other legacy pilot who would have much sympathy. Stagnation nearly everywhere else is and has been much worse, so you guys would move up reasonably well, right?

Going by Doug's words (yes, he was sober at the time), AWA is certainly better off with the addition of east revenues and reach, so, what would be wrong with all of us just staying put? It doesn't seem like anything would have been taken away from you boys, and all those ex-PSA guys living in Temecula won't jump into the PHX or LAS base.

I think it will be better for the airline in many ways, too....but that's a whole new thread.

So, flame suit is being zipped up....right....now......there it is! All right....go ahead.

 

[TWA Dude]

The USAir guys feel that they got screwed by the AmWest guys.

That's not the case. They feel they got screwed by Nicolau and ALPA National. We played by the same rules they did. The problem at hand is them taking out their anger on the AWA pilots. They think WE should make-up for their perceived screwing. Maybe if we actually felt they've been screwed we'd be more amenable to assisting them. Instead, they're holding a gun to our heads and telling us to give them taller fences or else. This is what they call "unity"?

 

[TWA Dude]

Pretty much stayed out of this ordeal lately, but I wonder if any AWA pilots might explain to me what would be the problem with a fence running along, say, the Mississippi.

Because binding arbitration means binding arbitration. We've already negotiated. We played by the rules. To go back to negotiating with the AAA sides nullifies ALPA Merger Policy. You ask why we don't give your side some concessions? Why on earth should we? And you can't say "for unity" because unity doesn't come when you threaten (coerce, extort) the other side to accede to your demands. If we gave you higher fences what would we get in return?

 

[JT8D]

If we gave you higher fences what would we get in return?

Your old job back.

As it stands right now that may be in jeopardy...

 

[TWA Dude]

JT8D: Which old job? You mean at AA?

 

[JT8D]

JT8D: Which old job? You mean at AA?

No HP.

...wether you guys ( HP) wanted this merger or not you guys will be affected by what East does at this point...and right now they have the 1000 yard stare and are threatening to "burn the house down".

HP guys just might find that instead of bigger airplanes and more destinations they are instead updating their resume.

Honestly...how much more bad news (no fault of HP guys) can these guys take?

I wouldn't blame them if they did "burn the house down".

 

[Tejas-Jet]

On the other thread someone said there was a Piedmont 97 hire below some America West pilots

You mean Piedmont the commuter? ...or Piedmont the major airline that was named airline of the year in 1985?

If it is the latter, Piedmont ( the major) was absorbed by US Air in 1989. There are no Piedmont 1997 hires.

At the commuter...yes

 

[TWA Dude]

...wether you guys ( HP) wanted this merger or not you guys will be affected by what East does at this point...and right now they have the 1000 yard stare and are threatening to "burn the house down".

Whether we wanted the merger or not is irrelevent. CEOs make these decisions, they profit and almost all employees suffer. If the Easties decide to burn down the house that's their choice and they have no right to put it on the West's shoulders.

HP guys just might find that instead of bigger airplanes and more destinations they are instead updating their resume.

Sounds like a threat to me. Think we should give in to extortion?

Honestly...how much more bad news (no fault of HP guys) can these guys take?

Honestly, that's not my problem. How much sympathy would there have been for us if Nicolau had awarded something close to DOH (ie, stapled 2/3 of us)?

I wouldn't blame them if they did "burn the house down".

To deliberately cause one's own employer to go out of business out of spite is the epitome of selfishness. I'll bet there are thousands of non-pilot USAirways employees who actually wish to remain employed and who couldn't care less how the pilots' seniority ends up.

My guess: the AAA pilots will not burn their airline down and if they attempt to certify a differnent union they will fail.

 

[JT8D]

Whether we wanted the merger or not is irrelevent. CEOs make these decisions, they profit and almost all employees suffer. If the Easties decide to burn down the house that's their choice and they have no right to put it on the West's shoulders.Sounds like a threat to me. Think we should give in to extortion?Honestly, that's not my problem. How much sympathy would there have been for us if Nicolau had awarded something close to DOH (ie, stapled 2/3 of us)?To deliberately cause one's own employer to go out of business out of spite is the epitome of selfishness. I'll bet there are thousands of non-pilot USAirways employees who actually wish to remain employed and who couldn't care less how the pilots' seniority ends up.

My guess: the AAA pilots will not burn their airline down and if they attempt to certify a differnent union they will fail.

I don't need a debate here...you asked a question. It was "if we give the East higher fences, what will we get in return?" My response was "your old job back' as in the one you are currently enjoying.

I could give a sh1t less when it gets right down to it...I'm not employed by AWA or AAA...

If you do stay in business it will be a hell hole in a mixed cockpit...trust me...I've been there...takes ALL the fun out of flying.

Good luck to ya...