ALPA Signs off on Age 65

[d328pilot]

So the EEOC has been against age 60 for over 20 years and it had no effect. They either are unwilling, or more likely, lack the legal authority to do anything about it. I cant imagine a new rule would be any different.

 

[redbook]

It wasn't an oncoming truck. It was a complex and political maelstrom of competing interests. On one hand was a tightly knit band of older pilots with a gameplan for marching on Capitol Hill. On the other hand was ALPA. David and Goliath, but David won, because Goliath threw in the towel.

And we're supposed to believe that Goliath is going to find his sack quick enough to stop globalization.

I encourage everyone to look at the fight AOPA and EAA are waging against user fees, on the same FAA reauthorization bill. Another "done deal" from Marion Blakey, but somehow they're fighting it anyway.....

Huck you nailed it. FJ too.

ALPA is nothing but a white towel waving, dues grabbing, corrupt organization.

"Guys, you are bound to get screwed, but just keep paying us. Thanks."

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Again Rez: I've been in three labor unions as a pilot. I've been well represented, and this aint it.

Aww thats cute. What is your solution to this?

You're commentary comes easy to you because you're free of the burden of having a even a clue of what proper representation is.

All I hear from your camp is Will of the Membership!!! Do you have anything else to offer?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

And yeah, while I am raging against the machine, Rez, you are officially an idiot. I hate to say it, because we agreed on a lot of things, but you are completely in denial about what ALPA is doing for (actually against) you.

Good luck in the future as you wail about not enough people participating in an organization that really doesn't want us to participate.

FJ

Ok then..what do you suggest? More name calling?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

not on the politics involved.

Politcs is everything in this career....

ALPA and that diickhead Prater sold us out.

Still name calling?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Huck you nailed it. FJ too.

ALPA is nothing but a white towel waving, dues grabbing, corrupt organization.

"Guys, you are bound to get screwed, but just keep paying us. Thanks."

What then do you suggest? Replace ALPA with USA and there would be those who would cry treason..... Pilots are ready to rip off there black and white ID lanyard, wear their pin upside down or not at all. Maybe you want the FAA or management to represent your interests.

Too many pilots think ALPA is there personal career custodian..... For years the membership was apathetic... then issues come up and they want results... oh yeah you paid your dues


What then do you suggest!!!

 

[Phaedrus]

I feel like Bill Murray in some movie where he shared credits with Punxsutawney Phil...........

 

[d328pilot]

Too many pilots think ALPA is there personal career custodian..... For years the membership was apathetic... then issues come up and they want results... oh yeah you paid your dues

Well which is it Rez? Do you want guys involved or not??? They are voicing their opinions on where ALPA is heading and the majority is NOT happy at all.

In every post, you demean pilots for not getting involved. So what does one have to do to be involved enough? There are only so many positions people be elected or appointed to. What percentage of pilots are off in one given day to attend LEC meeting? There is a reason that people dont get involved in ALPA. No one listens to them anyways. It gets to the point that people say " aww f*ck it". That happened some time ago with ALPA.

You are damn right. They paid their hard earned money and expect something in return. But so far, the have got nothing.

 

[Black Hawk]

A lot of folks here need to wise up. The change is going to take place regardless of what some union majority may think. These are federal rules not union rules. Now that the writing is on the wall it's much smarter for ALPA to get on board and influence how the change is implemented. It's time for unions, contracts and pilots to adjust to the change.

 

[Neubyfly]

Where are the survey results!!!???

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Well which is it Rez? Do you want guys involved or not??? They are voicing their opinions on where ALPA is heading and the majority is NOT happy at all.

Incorrect. There is no majority. Only 30% particapted in the online survey. In addition, of the minority particaption, a majority said that if the change was inevitable, then they want ALPA to be a part of the process.

In every post, you demean pilots for not getting involved.

Perhaps... my intent is to motivate them to become active particapants in their career.

So what does one have to do to be involved enough?

With 5% LEC particaption, 30% LEC voter particaption I think one needs to get connected. The only time I've seen 85% or more particaption is a new TA.

Most pilots don't know thier contract and they don't know who thier elected reps are. They have never read the C&BL and have know idea who comprises "ALPA National" yet they hate and despise "Nat'l"

There are only so many positions people be elected or appointed to. What percentage of pilots are off in one given day to attend LEC meeting? There is a reason that people dont get involved in ALPA. No one listens to them anyways.

True that many pilots are working during meetings. At the same time I have spoken to reps that have stated.. during contract negotiations a LEC meeting was being held and outside the meeting room pilots were updating Jepps, talking to freinds, playing cards, etc.. In addition, when the airline declares BK suddenly it is standing room only in the LEC meeting... So pilots en masse know how to show up to a meeting.

This isn't pilot specific but a mentality of many organizations such as HOAs.

It gets to the point that people say " aww f*ck it". That happened some time ago with ALPA.

That is because unions are political organizations. A pilot has an issue and shows up with a resolution to effect change. He is not prepared politically to get the doc passed. It takes work, time and politiking to pass a resolution. I've seen many pilots show up wanting to pass a resolution with zero documentation! Just a verbal effort!

Now he fails at his attempt and declares ALPA fubar!

You are damn right. They paid their hard earned money and expect something in return. But so far, the have got nothing.

If pilots really want ALPA to function like they treat it today, then dues will have to go double digit, so professional politicians can take over. However, the new complaint would be that these reps are non pilots and are out of touch. (sound familiar). In addition the increased dues would go over like profanity in church.

They way it is set up is pilots need to become politically active in their careers. So instead of trying to re-invent the paradigm, let's try and make the current one work. We haven't really tried it out.

Why is it pilots insist on handing over the reigns to thier careers to another when they have the ability to get involved politically and democratically?

 

[Freight Dog]

Rez... wanna know why your ordinary ALPA pilot doesn't bother going to meetings anymore or participate in this sh*tbag union? Those Herndon idiots just proved it.

You can have membership do 100% turnout, and you'll still have the jackasses in REPRESENTATION in telling me they know better and do the exact opposite REGARDLESS of the majority.

So tell me... why did I waste 15 minutes of my life which I'll never get back to do that goddamn web poll? Why the f**k did I answer the phone for the telephone survey? That's another 10 minutes of my life I'll never get back. Going to the union meetings... did you even bother to ask your FO's or captains why did they not go the union meetings? Their answers will surprise you, but that's not THEIR problem. It's ALPA's problem, and for someone who's claiming to be fixing ALPA, you sure don't have a first clue about the underlying problem.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez... wanna know why your ordinary ALPA pilot doesn't bother going to meetings anymore or participate in this sh*tbag union? Those Herndon idiots just proved it.

You can have membership do 100% turnout, and you'll still have the jackasses in REPRESENTATION in telling me they know better and do the exact opposite REGARDLESS of the majority.

So tell me... why did I waste 15 minutes of my life which I'll never get back to do that goddamn web poll? Why the f**k did I answer the phone for the telephone survey? That's another 10 minutes of my life I'll never get back. Going to the union meetings... did you even bother to ask your FO's or captains why did they not go the union meetings? Their answers will surprise you, but that's not THEIR problem. It's ALPA's problem, and for someone who's claiming to be fixing ALPA, you sure don't have a first clue about the underlying problem.

Your profanity and anger suggest fear and a concern of losing control....

But getting back to your post above... I suggest that if more members were actively involved and informed they would understand the complexity of the issue. Don't take offense as I am afraid you might... Most of the EC members are personally against changing Age60, but through information and briefings they have come to realize the politics of the matter.

What has the membership been doing during the last five years to stop age60 from changing? I venture to say that most have been doing not much or nothing. Pro-active? Nope.. except for ALPAAD. If keeping Age60 is so important to you, as it appears then why not create your own political grassroots effort?

If LEC meetings are not an effective venue then what then do you suggest....

 

[Freight Dog]

I'm not saying that LEC meetings are not an effective venue. What I am saying is that in order to get any response from your membership given the current atmosphere, you have to engage them and do what they are asking you to do.

When you go against the membership, you alienate them even further.

It's funny you should mention on another thread that you don't like listening to officers speak.

Has it occurred to you that perhaps they don't want to listen?

How's this as a remedy?

The issue is such and such... the management wants so and so. What's your stance on this? Start asking around the room. Put people on the spot. Make people believe that their showing up to meetings does indeed influence the decisions and the direction the leadership takes.

In short... it's the leadership that has to show to its members that it's listening and actively soliciting input. Given how it's been handled so far, it's a speech that ends with obligatory "if you have any questions or concerns... please feel free to contact us."

... and you'll continue to have this apathy towards ALPA.

 

[redbook]

What then do you suggest? Replace ALPA with USA and there would be those who would cry treason..... Pilots are ready to rip off there black and white ID lanyard, wear their pin upside down or not at all. Maybe you want the FAA or management to represent your interests.

Too many pilots think ALPA is there personal career custodian..... For years the membership was apathetic... then issues come up and they want results... oh yeah you paid your dues


What then do you suggest!!!

Rez,

If the anvil is tied to your neck and dragging you to the depths, you first have to admit there is a problem.

Your tag line is "fixing ALPA" but it seems you defend the party line.

Believe me there are many who feel as passionately as Freight Dog. I don't think his tone is off the mark given the magnitude of the situation.