ALPA President and Delta Connection ASA Pilots to Picket SkyWest Headquarters

[Blucher]

I can definately understand your point- however, there gets to be a point where you try and make chicken salad out of chicken s#@t. What I mean is, with a tallentless management like we have at ASA, we have to give them all we can to make up for their mental handicap....follow me??? (simple numbers = simple math)

Horizon is partly owned by Alaskan......Unfortunately we lost our wholely owned subsidiary advantage. In addition to that, they don't have the burden of a 100+aircraft fleet of inefficient, fuel guzzling, airspace backlogging 50 seaters.......don't take offense- I drive one.

This is contradictory and makes little sense.

-Blucher

 

[oceandude]

What happend you all the ALPA unity??? HMMM..............

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Horizon is a different type of regional. You can not compare any other regional to Horizon. They have a niche.

How so??? You mean SKYW doesn't compare because we are much more profitable than they are? Give me some good reasons for them to be so much higher compensated than us? Even with their "high" employee costs Frontier wanted to expand their feed from Horizon, it was Horizon that chose to bring their equipment back for their own use.

 

["GO AROUND"]

The attitude of all these SKYW pilots simply freakin amazes me!!! ASA pilots are, and have been for OVER 4 YEARS, trying to negotiate a contract within the rules and confines of the railway labor act. And what are we negotiating for? Better wages and work rules to raise the bar a bit for this profession!!! Isnt that what we all want??? I just don't get you guys for constantly bashing us like were trying to kick some puppies!!! I realize life is great over there in Utah, but look across the fence at what we are going through and what we are trying to accomplish! You will benefit from our gains, as will the rest of this pathetic industry. Would we gain more respect from you guys if we were rolling over or undercutting you guys to try to take some of your flying and bring it to ASA???? It seems like it. Maybe since thats the mentality of so many of your pilots, you would respect that more because you understand it. Why picket SGU? Because that is the HQ of our parent company. Picketing is one of very few tools an airline union has to pressure the company in some way, any way. It is a tactic used in this industry by many of your peers. From FedEx to United to American to Delta. That is how it works. So, you guys hate unions. Great. That works for you. But we at ASA have one, and they are working to get us a fair contract, that at least brings us up to what you SKYW pilots currently enjoy, and maybe improve it a bit. Improvements that maybe you could ask to match in the future. We are at least not out trying to undercut everybody for their flying, further lowering the bar. Just cut us a break, walk a mile in our shoes. We are losing our aircraft to you at SKYW. We have deliveries slated for us diverted to you. You have had more upgrades this month than we have had all year! But yet you guys bash us for fighting to at least improve our work rules, job protection and pay, legally, with the means afforded us. It just makes no sense to me. So.....we picketed SJU. Just show some support, because as it is, you look like a bunch of greedy guys, joyous in your gains while we suffer our losses. Its no wonder many of the rest of the industry look down on you.

Couldn't have said it any better. Nice post.

 

[SkyNation]

For the record, I don't have any problem with ASA guys or what you're trying to accomplish. Where I do have a problem is when you attack US for not joining the ALPA club. All we have to do is look at how it has worked for ya'll to realize that our way (though it has it's own flaws) works better for us. I'm all for saying either 'you guys do it your way, we'll do it ours' OR 'you guys join the club, ask for a carbon copy of what we have and let's move on.' thing is, Unionazis like Tomct are quick to flame that we really don't have it so good and we'd do well to adopt an anti-managment position and draw up battle plans because 'we're next.' No thanks. I don't want to work in an environment like that. As to your points:

The attitude of all these SKYW pilots simply freakin amazes me!!! ASA pilots are, and have been for OVER 4 YEARS, trying to negotiate a contract within the rules and confines of the railway labor act. And what are we negotiating for? Better wages and work rules to raise the bar a bit for this profession!!! Isnt that what we all want??? I just don't get you guys for constantly bashing us like were trying to kick some puppies!!!

Again, your way doesn't seem to be working so well, and that goes back well before you were bought by Inc. Not a very good sales pitch to recruit us.

I realize life is great over there in Utah

Agreed, so why would we want to change to the way life is over there in ATL?

Would we gain more respect from you guys if we were rolling over or undercutting you guys to try to take some of your flying and bring it to ASA????

No, you would gain more respect if you directed your anger at where it belongs, instead of at us. We didn't cause your problems.

So, you guys hate unions. Great. That works for you. But we at ASA have one, and they are working to get us a fair contract, that at least brings us up to what you SKYW pilots currently enjoy, and maybe improve it a bit.

Yet again, sounds like it isn't working so well. Why should we ditch our way of doing things over here? I'd really like to hear a well thought out response from anyone with clear, non-inflammatory ideas------not so fast Tomct!!

Improvements that maybe you could ask to match in the future.

We already enjoy better overall pay, QOL, and future prospects. We're not playing catch-up here, quite the contrary.

Just cut us a break, walk a mile in our shoes. We are losing our aircraft to you at SKYW. We have deliveries slated for us diverted to you. You have had more upgrades this month than we have had all year! But yet you guys bash us for fighting to at least improve our work rules, job protection and pay, legally, with the means afforded us. It just makes no sense to me. So.....we picketed SJU. Just show some support, because as it is, you look like a bunch of greedy guys, joyous in your gains while we suffer our losses. Its no wonder many of the rest of the industry look down on you.

like I said above, I hope ya'll get everything your after. However, if history is any indicator, it is not on your side.

I told everyone that would listen that I wanted nothing to do with ASA becoming part of our 'family.' Of course that didn't matter, but I take no comfort or glee in seeing ya'll go through what you are. At the same time, I'm amazed by zealots who are trying to convert us to the ALPA way while all this goes on.

I wish you the best of luck. I'll hope that cooler heads will prevail. I think everyone at SkyWest feels the same.

 

[thebest]

How is ASA's contract not good enough compaired to the rest? THEBEST

 

[79%N1]

The "way things are going" IS NOT THE FAULT OF ALPA OR UNIONS!!!!!!!!

It is the fault of whipsawing, and bottom feeder airlines like Mesa and Skywest (50 seat pay to 99 seaters)! Stop saying this is a union thing. Without our union, we would be in a hugh mess!!! They/it is not to blame! The blame is pressure to reduce our costs to keep up with others willing to underbid us for our flying! NOT THE UNION! Things are a mess for us at ASA because Skywest Inc is taking our airplanes and flying, and giving it to Skywest pilots. We want you to unionize to maybe put a stop to this, and insulate you SKYW pilots from facing it in the future, when they come for you next! How can you look at ASA and say you pin our problems on our having a union. Look in the mirror. There is our problem.

 

[PCL_128]

I just spoke to someone who was there and apparently Jerry greeted the picket line then went on to argue with Duane about how ASA needs to be at industry average pay.

Not only that, but he actually handed Captain Woerth a bunch of propoganda that he had compiled. Of course, Duane quickly threw it aside (on camera) and proceded to tell Jerry how things are going to be. Jerry didn't even know how to respond and just walked away embarrassed. A truly beautiful thing, and all recorded by the cameras. :smash:

 

[Morning Wood]

Not only that, but he actually handed Captain Woerth a bunch of propoganda that he had compiled. Of course, Duane quickly threw it aside (on camera) and proceded to tell Jerry how things are going to be. Jerry didn't even know how to respond and just walked away embarrassed. A truly beautiful thing, and all recorded by the cameras. :smash:

And HOW is it going to be?

 

[Morning Wood]

Bingo. Did you really think ALPA was gonna tell them about ASA? The message was "We're picketing Skywest".

No. But as often as KSL shows SkyWest on the TV, you'd think they'd do their homework and report who was picketing whom and not report something that is pretty cryptic or even misleading.

 

[Morning Wood]

A little arrogant? Not that you're biased or anything?

I just spoke to someone who was there and apparently Jerry greeted the picket line then went on to argue with Duane about how ASA needs to be at industry average pay. Is Jerry that stupid that he thought he'd convince Duane of anything? Apparently, he really looked like an ass. Clearly, he's more naieve in union dealings than anyone thought.

So I guess Duane thought he'd convince Atkin of anything? What did he think he was going to do, come running outside with a blank check?

 

[jehtplane]

OR, you could go to UPS and fly a 747 for 727 pay....RIGHT? THEBEST

No it is more like the 727 for 747 rates, the way it should be...

 

[jea]

The "way things are going" IS NOT THE FAULT OF ALPA OR UNIONS!!!!!!!!

It is the fault of whipsawing, and bottom feeder airlines like Mesa and Skywest (50 seat pay to 99 seaters)! Stop saying this is a union thing. Without our union, we would be in a hugh mess!!! They/it is not to blame! The blame is pressure to reduce our costs to keep up with others willing to underbid us for our flying! NOT THE UNION! Things are a mess for us at ASA because Skywest Inc is taking our airplanes and flying, and giving it to Skywest pilots. We want you to unionize to maybe put a stop to this, and insulate you SKYW pilots from facing it in the future, when they come for you next! How can you look at ASA and say you pin our problems on our having a union. Look in the mirror. There is our problem.

we dont want a union or insulation... im sorry that im your problem.... but it seems to me that if Skywest didnt buy you someone else would have- like mesa ha ha ha ha ha now thats funny..

 

[Hootie9750]

So folks, you can see that we have some SKyWest pilots on the same team with the GooJet and Freedom A-listers.

Are you ********************ing serious?? Skywest has been Skywest for 35 years, and last year they purchased ASA from bankrupt Delta. There is no alter ego carrier. Just one company that bought another company that was in bankruptcy. Do you even have a high school diploma?

 

[Blucher]

Are you ********************ing serious?? Skywest has been Skywest for 35 years, and last year they purchased ASA from bankrupt Delta. There is no alter ego carrier. Just one company that bought another company that was in bankruptcy. Do you even have a high school diploma?

Say what? I could have sworn Delta went into bankruptcy after the sale of ASA. Is that not the case?

-Blucher:erm:

 

[ASARJMan]

Say what? I could have sworn Delta went into bankruptcy after the sale of ASA. Is that not the case?

-Blucher:erm:

It is the case. SKYW bought ASA before DAL went into bankruptcy.

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[Hootie9750]

Yes, Skywest bought ASA from Delta one week before Delta entered into bankrupcty, as a shocker to everyone in the country. People could be heard for miles around, saying to one another how they couldnt believe that just one week ago Delta was doing so good financially and now they are in bankruptcy.

 

[ASARJMan]

they couldnt believe that just one week ago Delta was doing so good financially and now they are in bankruptcy.

I believe a big part of Delta filing bankruptcy when they did was the change in law where management loss alot of their decisions and the creditors were granted more say so during reorganizing, under the new law. Something like that anyway.

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[Blucher]

Are you ********************ing serious?? Skywest has been Skywest for 35 years, and last year they purchased ASA from bankrupt Delta. There is no alter ego carrier. Just one company that bought another company that was in bankruptcy. Do you even have a high school diploma?

Now that I'm beginning to worry about such things, where, exactly, do you live that they don't teach one how to read until the high school level? I've got a nephew in elementary school who can read and understand the news paper. I'm pretty sure that is all one would need to be able to determine a timeline for this issue.

As for people being shocked about an airline (any airline) going into bankruptcy after having to deal with not only world events (ala 9/11), but also corrupt leaders of such airlines who cared more about filling their own pockets as they jumped ship, rather than the dedicated life-long employees, no there probably weren't many shocked readers among the gallery.

Perhaps, assuming you are the proud holder of a high school diploma (as you insinuate others are not), you have noticed that it quickly became very tough for any legacy carrier to compete in an industry in which the government was allowing certain carriers to be "protected" under bankruptcy, while those who actually had a viable business plan suffered by actually having to pay their bills. Of course you can charge $39 cross country if you don't actually have to pay for anything you buy. Great!!! Super plan! Now what happens to the non-bankrupt carriers?

-Blucher:erm:

 

[LAMESAUCE]

ALPA: "Screw you, SkyWest, for screwing with the ASA Pilots!"
ALPA: "By the way, would you like some new bag tags so we can screw your pilots too?"

Again, unions are businesses, too.

 

[Mercyful Fate]

Lets solve this problem and give ASA back to Delta...

 

[Lance Uppercut]

No it is more like the 727 for 747 rates, the way it should be...

Idiot!!!

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Lets solve this problem and give ASA back to Delta...

I'll vote in favor of that!!!

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Say what? I could have sworn Delta went into bankruptcy after the sale of ASA. Is that not the case?

-Blucher:erm:

Same difference!!! Either way you were screwed, cause you were gonna get pimped out to SKYW or MESA!!!

 

[propsarebest]

I can definately understand your point- however, there gets to be a point where you try and make chicken salad out of chicken s#@t. What I mean is, with a tallentless management like we have at ASA, we have to give them all we can to make up for their mental handicap....follow me??? (simple numbers = simple math)

Horizon is partly owned by Alaskan......Unfortunately we lost our wholely owned subsidiary advantage. In addition to that, they don't have the burden of a 100+aircraft fleet of inefficient, fuel guzzling, airspace backlogging 50 seaters.......don't take offense- I drive one.

Horizon isn't owned by "Alaskan". Both AS and QX are owned by the Alaska Air Group, AAG. And as someone said QX isn't really a regional in the true sense, they have their own brand, and can survive by themselves.

 

[jehtplane]

Been trolling mostly on this board, but I have to agree with 79% N1.

Why are the SKW pilots on this board so happy to see ASA get kicked on the ground? Do we wish you ill? No one I've EVER spoken to here.

ALPA is not the fix all, but it is better than nothing.

So what do ASA pilots do to get YOUR respect......seriously. Would you rather us undercut you to try and get YOUR flying. Maybe we should.

After all, don't hate the playa, hate the game right?

I agree with you 100%. It is scary the lack of support I am reading, and just how ignoranrt people really are. I would hope that the opinions expressed do not represent any kind of majority at Skywest, if it is you guys should really be ashamed of yourselves. The ASA pilots are doing everything they can to make their lives better and standing up for themselves to set an industry leading contract, and still being bashed for picketing the Skywest G.O., Why?
And in the meantime watching 70 seat aircraft dissappear, transferred to Skywest airlines, a non union carrier and then have the balls to say why should we join ALPA, look what it has done for you? What would you like ALPA to do?
Things are in the mediators hands. Should the MEC go hold a gun to his head and say do something? What if the roles were reversed, you know what they say, what comes around goes around. Would you like the ASA pilots to take a paycut so they can start taking your aircraft?
I guess ignorance really is bliss.

 

[jehtplane]

Idiot!!!

Well that was intelligent.

 

[pgcfii2002]

The flying public doesn't care.......as long as they get the cheap seats.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

The flying public doesn't care.......as long as they get the cheap seats.

Bingo!!!