ALPA National changes policy, now supports Age 65 retirement

[Dumb Pilot]

"Since ALPA doesn't get its way 100% of the time on all issues, then why have ALPA?" Well, we lose some fights and we win some.

We have been conformists for far to long, I say it is time to get a real union

 

[ualdriver]

We have been conformists for far to long, I say it is time to get a real union

So define what a "real union" is?

 

[d328pilot]

Not really... in ALPA's history it has made many gains with favorable political support....

Name some in recent history.....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't know why your people in Washington are saying that, .....................

A problem perhaps....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Name some in recent history.....

How about the the inclusion of labor in April's open skies negotiations. With that inclusion we'd be much worse off....


In stead of looking at FI for your information why not get connected to your ALPA reps and the organization...

 

[d328pilot]

So define what a "real union" is?

One that stands up when bullied instead of rolling over. How many times did pilot groups cave when threatened with bankruptcy over the last 5 years or regionals accepted substandard agreements to get bigger or more airplanes?

One that protects all of its memebers interests (J4J program at US Air WOs)

ALPA is at a crossroads and major changes need to take place. A good place to start would be fragmenting the regionals off to get rid of the conflict of interest. You could still share resources in medical, certificate action, safety, etc.. but barganing should be separate. Either that or come up with a way to resolve disputes internally effectively.

 

[d328pilot]

How about the the inclusion of labor in April's open skies negotiations. With that inclusion we'd be much worse off....

Do you really think labor had that much pull in those negotiations? What exactly did labor get for pilots in that agreement? Cabatoge was never really up this round, so that would not have happened (yet) even if we were not included.

In stead of looking at FI for your information why not get connected to your ALPA reps and the organization...[/

quote]

Classic Rez... "you are not involved enough". Thankfully, I am no longer at an ALPA carrier. I was involved enough at my previous job and it was enough to make me discusted with ALPA. (although i did do well at the tables at the last BOD)

 

[ualdriver]

Name some in recent history.....

How about when a labor unfriendly Congressman tried to "slip" some verbage into some recent legislation that defined ANY work action by ANY transportation employee as "an act of terrorism" to be dealt with accordingly. Did you hear about that little gem? I did. Thankfully, I had ALPA legislative people on my side to get the language removed through the Senators and Congressmen we have established relationships with.

How about all the times that ALPA actually defeated changes to the Age 60 rule, until now when it became politically impossible?

And for that matter, do you think I can list EVERY time ALPA does something good for the pilot group behind the scenes? I can't. I just know it happens. Just because you don't see ALPA guys jumping up and down saying, "look what I did today" doesn't mean they're all sitting around doing nothing.

 

[ualdriver]

One that stands up when bullied instead of rolling over. How many times did pilot groups cave when threatened with bankruptcy over the last 5 years or regionals accepted substandard agreements to get bigger or more airplanes?

One that protects all of its memebers interests (J4J program at US Air WOs)

ALPA is at a crossroads and major changes need to take place. A good place to start would be fragmenting the regionals off to get rid of the conflict of interest. You could still share resources in medical, certificate action, safety, etc.. but barganing should be separate. Either that or come up with a way to resolve disputes internally effectively.

That's the problem d328pilot. You equate fighting battles to the death no matter what the consequences with "real union." I don't equate it that way at all. I want my Union to be smart about anything it does, and that includes the battles it picks to fight and the way it fights them. To me that doesn't equal "fighting to the death" when it will be to my detriment long term.

I don't know enough about the J4J deal with US Air to comment about that. But, for example, I can comment on your bankruptcy "rolling over." Look at UAL for example. We gave up over 1.1B a year in pay, work rules cuts, and retirement in order to save the company. Why? Because ALPA can't overcome market forces. At all the ALPA carriers we were forced to either compete with the realities of the market that changed (i.e. the advent of the LCC's and their cheap labor) or perish. As I stated in a previous post, even if ALPA at every ALPA carrier was so feared, fought so hard that during our bankruptcies we took ZERO in cuts, every ALPA carrier would eventually die. Airlines that have Captains making $220/hr. and F/O's making $140/hr. with a nice pension and great work rules don't exist anymore. It's simply not competitive and market forces "fix" those kinds of inequities. So is ALPA not a "real union" because the market for highly compensated airline pilots no longer exists and ALPA recognized that and changed to adapt to new market realities?

Further, "real unions" make mistakes and ALPA has made plenty. And whatever union defines yours or anyone else's definition of "real union" will likely do the same.

 

[John Pennekamp]

So answer this, UALDriver, if ALPA beat Age 60 every other time, why couldn't we beat it again?

To back down now, we are making ourselves look like hypocrites, because ALPA has always insisted that flying beyond 60 was unsafe. Are they saying it's safe now? Once you go down the safety road you can't go back.

So what if Europe approved age 60? Most of Europe are socialists too, but I don't see that changing here.

The truth is that ALPA caved to the pressure from the high dues paying senior pilots who lost their pensions and need to keep working. That's a win-win for the union, because at 1.95% these are also the top dues payers, and ALPA will be raking it in for another 5 years. They are, as said before, robbing the junior pilots to pay the senior pilots. The ICAO and FAA position is nothing but an excuse for ALPA to do something they wanted to do anyhow, but couldn't figure out how.

Fortunately, Blakey did them a favor. As if they didn't discuss it beforehand...