ALPA MEC tells Gary Kelly no thanks..again

[Sacha]

With all due respect, a question comes to mind; had not Northwest and other pilot groups struck when needed, would the "bar" had been raised to a level allowing the SW pilots to negotiate the pay and work rules they now enjoy? At a minimum, respect should be shown for the battles fought that essentially created the environment which led to Swapa's gains.

S

I walked at Eastern. We went down, but so eventually did Lorenzo and Texas Air Corp. That had nothing to do with "raising the bar". It was an effort to keep the bar from completely disappearing.

Northwest pilots and other employee groups were constantly going on strike because of their CEO Nyrop. For decades, NWA was the lowest paid pilots in the industry. Employee relations were a joke. Did Northwest raise the bar for SWA? That's ridiculous.

What Nyrop and Lorenzo did prove and perhaps Herb Kelleher learned was in a heavily unionized,labor intensive industry like the airlines, if you are confrontational and unfair to your employees, long term you will lose. If on the other hand you treat your employees like they are the solution,not the enemy. That they and unions are not necessary evils. Herb never told us we were going to be the highest paid, just fairly paid. 40 years of profitability and only one several day strike over 30 years ago by our Mechanics was no accident.

Did the other airlines raise the bar for us? You can argue that all day long. But as far as I am concerned, Herb and Gary have shown other airlines that beating up your employees year after year doesn't accomplish anything. The employees of SWA have shown that career longevity and stability is not accomplished by constantly giving you bosses the middle finger and striving for the "highest pay until the last day". That isn't so smart after all either.

That's how I look at raising the bar.

The original post was to a NWA pilot who lectured the SWA pilots to go arbitration and do the fair thing. I called him out on the Arbitrated Red book Green book result that was at the time the biggest screw jobs in airline history. Don't believe me? Ask a Republic guy. That's how this applys to our situation. ALPA history can be inconvienant for many, but I submit if it were so fair and inclusive, you wouldn't have the majority of the pilots in ALPA now flying for regionals with a move at Delta and Usair to eliminate them completely.

 

[tzskipper]

That is a completely valid statement and I agree with it 100%. Thank you! But it has nothing to do with the Southwest/Airtran acquisition and merger of seniority lists.

shootr

Agreed. It was a question regarding a statement made by Sasha:

Why was your airline nicknamed the "Viper" airlines amoungst others? Since I know you again won't answer the question, I'll answer it for you. Because you never knew when the Northwest pilots were going to strike. Russ Laboda told me that back in the mid 70's. He was your top 747 captain in SEA back in the 70's. Given the very checkered past of your airline, I don't think you are in any position to be lecturing the SWA pilots or our airline about how we should be conducting ourselves.

S

 

[ASADFW7]

On your six how does it feel to working at B scale wages?

 

[Sacha]

Agreed. It was a question regarding a statement made by Sasha:



S

And you left off the majority of my post and cherry picked what you wanted.

 

[On Your Six]

On your six how does it feel to working at B scale wages?

You mean 1st year wages? Not bad, because even though I am on reserve, it's not as bad as my corporate gig that was 24/7 on a beeper. My 2nd year pay starts in the next couple months, and it is a pretty good jump, about $24 bucks more per hour. Luckily I have family nearby so I can stay there during short call reserve, which saves even more money. At my airline, pay moves up pretty quick in the first 3-4 years, and hopefully we will get a good contract in the next year or two, which will help even more. With retirements coming, I feel like I might be doing International widebody flying within the next few years, which is what I personally want to do. Do you need help getting a rec? We may start hiring early next year. PM me if you do.


OYS

 

[ASADFW7]

No oys six year first officer pay at SWA pays a little better.

 

[On Your Six]

No oys six year first officer pay at SWA pays a little better.

After your SLI is over, you may want that rec. Be nice, and it's yours! Godspeed!


OYS

 

[tzskipper]

I walked at Eastern. We went down, but so eventually did Lorenzo and Texas Air Corp. That had nothing to do with "raising the bar". It was an effort to keep the bar from completely disappearing.

Northwest pilots and other employee groups were constantly going on strike because of their CEO Nyrop. For decades, NWA was the lowest paid pilots in the industry. Employee relations were a joke. Did Northwest raise the bar for SWA? That's ridiculous.

What Nyrop and Lorenzo did prove and perhaps Herb Kelleher learned was in a heavily unionized,labor intensive industry like the airlines, if you are confrontational and unfair to your employees, long term you will lose. If on the other hand you treat your employees like they are the solution,not the enemy. That they and unions are not necessary evils. Herb never told us we were going to be the highest paid, just fairly paid. 40 years of profitability and only one several day strike over 30 years ago by our Mechanics was no accident.

Did the other airlines raise the bar for us? You can argue that all day long. But as far as I am concerned, Herb and Gary have shown other airlines that beating up your employees year after year doesn't accomplish anything. The employees of SWA have shown that career longevity and stability is not accomplished by constantly giving you bosses the middle finger and striving for the "highest pay until the last day". That isn't so smart after all either.

That's how I look at raising the bar.

Are you serious? The "middle finger" was raised because of management and their negotiating style. To imply that any pilot group should just roll over and take it, is about as ignorant a statement I think could be made. Again, it begs the next question; What data do you think Herb used to determine what "fairly paid" was? To ignore what those groups that created the payscales and workrules that you benefit from went through, and then turn and blame them for their management induced relationships is unbelievable.

S

 

[tzskipper]

And you left off the majority of my post and cherry picked what you wanted.

It was cherry picked, because it deserved to be addressed. If you misspoke what you intended, I will apologize right now. If not, take responsibility for what was written.

S

 

[tzskipper]

I walked at Eastern. We went down, but so eventually did Lorenzo and Texas Air Corp. That had nothing to do with "raising the bar". It was an effort to keep the bar from completely disappearing.

Northwest pilots and other employee groups were constantly going on strike because of their CEO Nyrop. For decades, NWA was the lowest paid pilots in the industry. Employee relations were a joke. Did Northwest raise the bar for SWA? That's ridiculous.

What Nyrop and Lorenzo did prove and perhaps Herb Kelleher learned was in a heavily unionized,labor intensive industry like the airlines, if you are confrontational and unfair to your employees, long term you will lose. If on the other hand you treat your employees like they are the solution,not the enemy. That they and unions are not necessary evils. Herb never told us we were going to be the highest paid, just fairly paid. 40 years of profitability and only one several day strike over 30 years ago by our Mechanics was no accident.

Did the other airlines raise the bar for us? You can argue that all day long. But as far as I am concerned, Herb and Gary have shown other airlines that beating up your employees year after year doesn't accomplish anything. The employees of SWA have shown that career longevity and stability is not accomplished by constantly giving you bosses the middle finger and striving for the "highest pay until the last day". That isn't so smart after all either.

That's how I look at raising the bar.

The original post was to a NWA pilot who lectured the SWA pilots to go arbitration and do the fair thing. I called him out on the Arbitrated Red book Green book result that was at the time the biggest screw jobs in airline history. Don't believe me? Ask a Republic guy. That's how this applys to our situation. ALPA history can be inconvienant for many, but I submit if it were so fair and inclusive, you wouldn't have the majority of the pilots in ALPA now flying for regionals with a move at Delta and Usair to eliminate them completely.

Understand the change. I was addressing the implication that what you now enjoy, is not (at least in part) a result of what others fought for.

I am done.

S