ALPA is dead!

[semperfido]

It has nothing to do with ALPA.

alpa played a part in the rocky road the airlines have endured since deregulation.

 

[klhoard]

alpa played a part in the rocky road the airlines have endured since deregulation.

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Huh? ALPA controls Congress??
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Perhaps ALPA caused the New Orleans levee failures also??
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[semperfido]

after the "airline Dereguation Act of 1978" the major airlines failed to adapt in a timely way to the new environment. in part, because of alpa's rigid contracts, which took too long to change. carriers like SWA and the Regionals jumped in and blossomed. alpa played a part in many a major airlines decline, like it or not.

 

[G4G5]

I am guessing this is what he was refering to:

UNITED -- FROM "PROUD OWNERS" TO "POOR OWNERS"
As wrenching as the restructuring at US Airways has been for workers there, the situation at United Airlines has repercussions far greater for the national economy, the airline industry and airline unions as a whole by virtue of its sheer size and its history as one of the world's largest unionized carrier. United is currently the second largest airline in the world with $22 billion dollars worth of assets with a workforce that is 85% unionized.
From the workers' perspective, the root of United's problems with labor stem from the 1994-2000 contracts with its pilots and machinists.
ALPA and the IAM agreed to a $4.5 billion concessionary pact in exchange for the Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP), a majority stake in the airline, and a seat United's board of directors. While pilots overwhelmingly ratified the agreement, machinists narrowly ratified the agreement. The AFA refused to participate-the only work group at United to do so.
During contract negotiations early in 1994, United's then-CEO Stephen Wolf sold off the company's profitable flight kitchens. Close to 5,000 workers lost their jobs. Wolf threatened to sell the company off piece by piece unless workers agreed to concessions.
The unions had successfully organized work slowdowns during negotiations to pressure the company back. However, the ESOP was ALPA's idea, and one that the IAM came to champion as well. The unions believed that employees owning stock and the unions having a seat on the board of directors would usher in an era of cooperation and labor peace with management. For the company it insured massive concessions from labor, huge tax breaks and kept corporate raiders at bay.
Two things happened that underscored the fallacy of the ESOP: United Airlines made $8 billion in net profit during the economic boom of the late 90s while employees struggled to survive under concessions and the economic bubble burst. For the major airlines the problems stemmed not from Enron-like fake profit reports, but from over-capacity and competition from small carriers like Southwest. Under the rules of the ESOP, employees could not sell their stock unless they separated from the company. The stock functioned as a de facto retirement fund and since the company was making record profits, employees could not diversify their investments in United's 401K program. During the ESOP negotiations United's stock was trading at well over $100 per share. In bankruptcy the stock employees now "own" has become essentially worthless.

http://www.labornotes.org/archives/2003/03/a.html

 

[G4G5]

This is a simple one:

What do NWA, UAL and DAL all have in common?

What do Airtran, SWA, UPS and AA have in common?

 

[FNG_that's me]

1. ALPA can not control the vast market forces that control all businesses. Think about how silly the arguement for 3-person cockpits sounds now. Well, we once were making that arguement to 'preserve jobs.' In fact I think that's why American split with ALPA(chime it if you know for sure) There is only so much one can demand when the writing is on the wall. Lots of pilots are taking jobs without pensions, that becomes the industry standard for all who wish their company to remain competative.

2. While I personally believe that airline management used 9/11 as an excuse to re-structure labor (read: crush labor), there is also an epidemic of enormous proportion in the area of pension stealing that is not isolated to the airline industry. I'm not a big fan of Time, but they have an article recently about the subject which is a must read for anyone who has a pension.

3. WE are the strenght of ALPA, or whatever organization represents your pilot group. STRENGTH in UNITY is self fufilling. If the organization splinters away, so does its bargaining power. While things aren't perfect, or even great for many right now--how would you be treated if you had to represent yourself without any organized labor? We would all be out of jobs, and I don't think that is an overstatement. At minimum, the jobs we have would not be worth the pay and workrules that would be implemented. I can guarantee you that the cost of dues pays for itself whether times are good or bad. I do realize that this is a tough pill to swallow, especially for the furloughed folks, but it is true.

Don't let the vocal minority make you feel defeated. Remember, only 4% of Americans are athiest and want God taken out of the pledge or off the dollar bill, but you hear about it all the time on the TV. A few anti-union pilots(or perhaps plants from management to seed your beliefs) disheartened about true misfortunes in their career should not sway you from the basic belief that we must be represented. Don't like the representation? VOTE!! or run for office yourself. There are a lot of people who would benefit from the demise of ALPA...the pilots they represent are not among that group. Please, no comments claiming that I'm comparing God and ALPA or whomever...it's all about the vocal minority.

Food for thought--What is great about this job can also be a detriment. There is a lot of variety in the workplace...Don't like certain layovers, well somebody lives there and they want them. Don't like flying the red-eyes, some folks eat them up. It makes it a little easier to get what you want because not everybody wants what you want. Well, this is a killer when it comes to negotiations: Some want more money, others more time off, others focus on retirement. No CBA will make everyone happy about every issue. Please remember this when you are faced with something that isn't as tasty as you'd like...it's all about balance. This is yet another arguement for giving you input to the union and letting them fight it out on behalf of the entire pilot group.


Stick together and we'll get through this storm...it's just going to take a while.


Peace!

 

[FNG_that's me]

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Perhaps ALPA caused the New Orleans levee failures also??
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No, from what I hear, President Bush was the mastermind.

 

[Publishers]

I think that what you have to look at is ALPA prior to deregulation and ALPA post deregulation. They are two different things. In trying to look for a similar example, the closest I could come up with was the auto industry prior to the Japanese and German invasion.

In these cases, a union dominates an industry and forces certain factors until they force them to the point that something else comes up that topples the kingdom. The killing of the golden goose is a well worn phrase.

ALPA dominated during deregulation, managed to force certain pay and work levels and continued to do so until the playing field was changed. Like most big organizations, they got fixed in their way of thinking and did not adapt well to the new world. The auto companies dominated Detroit, drove up wages and work rules until it became economical to import cars made by people with less wage and rules.

Both unions made major mistakes/.

 

[klhoard]

I am guessing this is what he was refering to:

UNITED -- FROM "PROUD OWNERS" TO "POOR OWNERS"
As wrenching as the restructuring at US Airways has been for workers there, the situation at United Airlines has repercussions far greater for the national economy, the airline industry and airline unions as a whole by virtue of its sheer size and its history as one of the world's largest unionized carrier. United is currently the second largest airline in the world with $22 billion dollars worth of assets with a workforce that is 85% unionized.
From the workers' perspective, the root of United's problems with labor stem from the 1994-2000 contracts with its pilots and machinists.
ALPA and the IAM agreed to a $4.5 billion concessionary pact in exchange for the Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP), a majority stake in the airline, and a seat United's board of directors. While pilots overwhelmingly ratified the agreement, machinists narrowly ratified the agreement. The AFA refused to participate-the only work group at United to do so.
During contract negotiations early in 1994, United's then-CEO Stephen Wolf sold off the company's profitable flight kitchens. Close to 5,000 workers lost their jobs. Wolf threatened to sell the company off piece by piece unless workers agreed to concessions.
The unions had successfully organized work slowdowns during negotiations to pressure the company back. However, the ESOP was ALPA's idea, and one that the IAM came to champion as well. The unions believed that employees owning stock and the unions having a seat on the board of directors would usher in an era of cooperation and labor peace with management. For the company it insured massive concessions from labor, huge tax breaks and kept corporate raiders at bay.
Two things happened that underscored the fallacy of the ESOP: United Airlines made $8 billion in net profit during the economic boom of the late 90s while employees struggled to survive under concessions and the economic bubble burst. For the major airlines the problems stemmed not from Enron-like fake profit reports, but from over-capacity and competition from small carriers like Southwest. Under the rules of the ESOP, employees could not sell their stock unless they separated from the company. The stock functioned as a de facto retirement fund and since the company was making record profits, employees could not diversify their investments in United's 401K program. During the ESOP negotiations United's stock was trading at well over $100 per share. In bankruptcy the stock employees now "own" has become essentially worthless.

http://www.labornotes.org/archives/2003/03/a.html

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Wow, now if you only had a time machine, you could go back and tell them how foolish they were!!!
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Hindsight sure is 20/20, eh??
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[G4G5]

No, from what I hear, President Bush was the mastermind.

The Army corp of Engineers didn't really need the money it's much better to spend it in Iraq so I can have $3.00 a gallon gas.