ALPA fails at JB

[DonVerita]

3. AirTran and SWA. - Steamrolled and on the verge of a staple

knock...knock,

Foot, meet mouth.

AirTran ALPA MEC voted today to REJECT the SLI agreement. Now they can move on to Federal mediation and arbitration. ALPA has been there every step of the way with a team of attorneys and outside expert counsel that specializes in M&A.

Tell me, what kind of position would a non-union carrier have been in? Or how about one with a weak non-airline union like the Teamsters?

For the record, since you don't have the facts, there was never a staple. A large group of AAI F/O's were unfairly proposed to be put near the bottom of the list, but not at the bottom. A true staple is when an entire pilot group gets put below the most junior person of another pilot group. That never happened here nor was it even proposed as it would be ILLEGAL under Bond/McCaskill.

 

[Neubyfly]

Sorry, guys. But don't give up. I remember how depressed the Colgan OC was after their first vote failed by a small margin, and a little over a year later they had a huge majority vote in favor and they were ALPA members. Keep the faith.

Didn't you pay for training AND pay to occupy the right seat at gulfstream??? Is that union activity?

 

[A350]

FWIW....IMHO, this was less an endorsement of the DR than it was a condemnation of ALPA.

I would bet a lot of money that if this second drive had been an in house union, it would have passed by a large margin.

The reason that some went to ALPA is they figured it would be easier for someone else to foot the bill. Those of us who have been ALPA before understand the concept of "no free lunch".

Starting an in house would be pretty expensive, but not out of the question. If you are such a strong supporter of a union, but the pilots don't want ALPA, the only way to a CBA and all the protections you believe you need is to open up your #$%$%^ing wallet and start another in house.

A350

 

[banger]

So this might be a long shot or crazy thinking for a FI post. It is a possibility that the company will see how close the vote was, and realize that makeing our QOL better through the DR will be much cheaper than haveing a union voted in a year from now. There for addressing all the issues that we have and makeing our QOL better. As much as nobody on FI wants to admit it, this might be a big turning point for us and the company. Just a crazy idea that the company might do the right thing here. JB has kind of been known for doing the right thing and fixing there mistakes over the years. A happy pilot group=happy customers=happy investors. I think Dave Barger understands this cocept.

I can almost guarntee you have not been here more than 2 years. If you were you would not even have suggested this.

 

[Cometman]

knock...knock,

Foot, meet mouth.

AirTran ALPA MEC voted today to REJECT the SLI agreement. Now they can move on to Federal mediation and arbitration. ALPA has been there every step of the way with a team of attorneys and outside expert counsel that specializes in M&A.

Tell me, what kind of position would a non-union carrier have been in? Or how about one with a weak non-airline union like the Teamsters?

For the record, since you don't have the facts, there was never a staple. A large group of AAI F/O's were unfairly proposed to be put near the bottom of the list, but not at the bottom. A true staple is when an entire pilot group gets put below the most junior person of another pilot group. That never happened here nor was it even proposed as it would be ILLEGAL under Bond/McCaskill.

Illegal? Where does it say that in the law?

 

[Blue Dude]

I can almost guarntee you have not been here more than 2 years. If you were you would not even have suggested this.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Turns out he's a new hire, only on the property for a month, not even out of the school house yet. Knows more than we do about how this place runs apparently. Took me more than half of my ten plus years here, so he's way smarter than I am. That's not too hard though, since I've been on the losing end of two votes now.

 

[$$$4nothin]

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Turns out he's a new hire, only on the property for a month, not even out of the school house yet. Knows more than we do about how this place runs apparently. Took me more than half of my ten plus years here, so he's way smarter than I am. That's not too hard though, since I've been on the losing end of two votes now.

You are both correct. I am not out of the school house yet. I don't remember saying that I know more than anyone, or am smarter than anyone. Yes, I am hopeing for better for sure. What I do know is that there is a long way to go. I also know that with only 11 years behind us, the company knows there is a long way to go also. %90+ of all post on FI come from the very outspoken ALPA supporters and 58% of the pilot group don't completely agree with you. The vote is over, you guys don't like the outcome. I get it.
So you have a couple choices. Quit, or go work for an ALPA carrier. Either way stop bitching. Wait until the next vote and you can vote again. B6 is not going to be ALPA for at least another year so why not play with the cards delt to ya and make the best of it.
I was looking forward to welcomeing in ALPA, but it didnt work out like that so lets all do what we can with what weve got.

 

[mejorgy]

You are both correct. I am not out of the school house yet. I don't remember saying that I know more than anyone, or am smarter than anyone. Yes, I am hopeing for better for sure. What I do know is that there is a long way to go. I also know that with only 11 years behind us, the company knows there is a long way to go also. %90+ of all post on FI come from the very outspoken ALPA supporters and 58% of the pilot group don't completely agree with you. The vote is over, you guys don't like the outcome. I get it.
So you have a couple choices. Quit, or go work for an ALPA carrier. Either way stop bitching. Wait until the next vote and you can vote again. B6 is not going to be ALPA for at least another year so why not play with the cards delt to ya and make the best of it.
I was looking forward to welcomeing in ALPA, but it didnt work out like that so lets all do what we can with what weve got.

4nothin........... Barnes and Noble..... Websters Dictionary would be helpful!

None of our Blue Brother Comrades are bitching!!! This election was predicated on the failures of the direct relationship model crammed down our throats. You are new here..... You have not felt the sting yet!!!!

 

[xrated]

.......

 

[xrated]

No, and I don't think ALPA is the only way to get a CBA .... Right ?

Very true!! Take USAPA for example. They've done a great job of getting a CBA done....OOOOPS!!

 

[n757st]

You are both correct. I am not out of the school house yet. I don't remember saying that I know more than anyone, or am smarter than anyone. Yes, I am hopeing for better for sure. What I do know is that there is a long way to go. I also know that with only 11 years behind us, the company knows there is a long way to go also. %90+ of all post on FI come from the very outspoken ALPA supporters and 58% of the pilot group don't completely agree with you. The vote is over, you guys don't like the outcome. I get it.
So you have a couple choices. Quit, or go work for an ALPA carrier. Either way stop bitching. Wait until the next vote and you can vote again. B6 is not going to be ALPA for at least another year so why not play with the cards delt to ya and make the best of it.
I was looking forward to welcomeing in ALPA, but it didnt work out like that so lets all do what we can with what weve got.

Perhaps this is a good time to concentrate on your studies and not argue with line pilots. After you finish IOE you will have plenty of time to bitch for or against the DR.

 

[waveflyer]

You don't have to wait a year. You can sue to have the in-house group that negotiates for you to be disbanded under the RLA- see my quote above. Company funded collective bargaining agents are prohibited.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Love hearing the new hire guys from regional x y and meZa telling the senior guys how it is.

 

[Andy]

ALPA doesn't furlough, the Company does.

What a beautifully naive statement.
That's like blaming the cop for giving you a speeding ticket when you drive 30 MPH over the speed limit.

UALALPO knew exactly how manpower detrimental their work rule concessions were in C2003.
I jumped up and down on the UAL pilot forum in opposition of PBS because PBS is 5-10% more manpower 'efficient' than the system that was in place prior to PBS. Anyone with half a brain and understands line construction would know that.
And let's not forget raising minimum lines by ~15% for all pilots. Are you really going to sit here and tell anyone that increasing the number of monthly hours flown by pilots would not result in additional furloughs?
Both of the above negotiated concessions guaranteed large numbers of additional furloughs. Sure, the company furloughed the pilots but ULAALPO laid the groundwork to ensure additional furloughs.

And let's not forget the unlimited 70 seat giveaway. This allowed the company to park the entire 737 fleet.

In concessionary contract negotiations, you can lower wage rates. Those can be recovered. But give away work rules and you'll have an extremely hard time getting them back.

I find it incredulous that people who claim to be intelligent are unable to grasp the rather simple dynamic that more efficient work rules result in less personnel.

 

[Turtle21]

....

That being said, ALPA sh*t their own nest for so long that I seriously doubt that it will remain a viable entity much longer. You reap what you sow.
..

How many ALPA dues paying members would say ALPA has been a viable entity for the last ten or twenty years? What ever number that has been, I agree the number is plummeting.