Alpa Endorses Kerry?

[Hugh Jorgan]

KERRY



Although I will not vote for Kerry, I have no problem with ALPA endorsing him on the grounds of a single issue - - LABOR.


ALPA IS, after all, a LABOR UNION, and I am, after all, an hourly wage earner.

Sheesh, four pages of posts and finally, someone gets it. It's not about who YOU support, it's about who ALPA is supporting. To say a LABOR union should support anything other than the Democratic candidate is to say to those around you that you weren't paying attention in Political Science 101 class. ALPA is simply playing along in their role in the political process. Get it? Vote for whomever you choose, but a little understanding of political alignments might help before you step in the booth.

 

[radiofly er]

Kerrry!

 

[moscowcfi]

Sheesh, four pages of posts and finally, someone gets it. It's not about who YOU support, it's about who ALPA is supporting. To say a LABOR union should support anything other than the Democratic candidate is to say to those around you that you weren't paying attention in Political Science 101 class. ALPA is simply playing along in their role in the political process. Get it? Vote for whomever you choose, but a little understanding of political alignments might help before you step in the booth.

Now I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. By throwing in unconditional support to the Democrats (and it has definitely been pretty much unconditional), the unions have accomplished two things. First, the Democrats now take them for granted. Whereas in the past parties had to work hard to earn union support, Democrats check the Union column in their favor without even having to think about labor issues. Second, by consistently and vehemently lashing out at Republicans, unions have effectively burned the bridges between them and a political power that regularly holds power. Why in the world should Republicans do anything for labor when they are spat upon by labor constantly? There is no room for dialogue - only name calling. This kind of scorched-earth politiking has hurt workers in this country, not advanced their cause. And when you consider that a large percentage of those workers are Republicans themselves, these kinds of tactics are despicable.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Sheesh, four pages of posts and finally, someone gets it. It's not about who YOU support, it's about who ALPA is supporting. To say a LABOR union should support anything other than the Democratic candidate is to say to those around you that you weren't paying attention in Political Science 101 class. ALPA is simply playing along in their role in the political process. Get it? Vote for whomever you choose, but a little understanding of political alignments might help before you step in the booth.

Who the hell do you think "YOU" is? Pardon my grammar. A Union is not some "thing". It is a group. A group of "people". Whether you support Kerry or not is your business, but I do question your views on what a Union is.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Now I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. .

It's not any more nonsense than the Democrats taking for granted the environmentalists, the pro-abortionists, the minorities, Hollywood elite, gun control advocates, urban areas, etc. It's not any more nonsense than the Republicans taking for granted the anti-abortionists, the religious right, the military, big oil, rural areas, etc. Generally, the republicans vote for management-friendly bills and the democrats vote for labor-friendly bills. It's very partisan and very factual. It's also part of what is broken, in my view, with our system as it stands today, but that's another conversation altogether.

As for what a labor union is (and by the way, who I vote for truly is my business alone, you don't see me advocating a candidate here), yes, it's comprised of people, just as any political party is. But the Union is still an entity, like it or not. That enity, just like a party, has to take a general stand and it would be ludicrus for a labor union to take the conservative stance based on the paradigms of our system. If I'm wrong, please help me to understand why. In case you are still not sure who YOU is. You are you. I am me. We (I assume) are part of the same union, but not all of us may agree issue for issue on who we feel WE (as individuals) should support. You vote for who you want. I'll vote for who I want. When I go to bed tonight, I'll still know who's on which side of what and the silliness in Washington will continue.

 

[JonnyKnoxville]

KERRY...Didn't any of you Bush supporters read flying the line Vol. II on ALPA's history and how every republican f*cks unionized pilots over?

 

[100-1/2]

Which came first?

Deregulation or ALPA?

Deregulation created competition and jobs. With out either, there would be less pilots, airlines and need for existence of ALPA. Conservativism stimulated growth and opportunity through this deregulation... liberalism, liberitarism and greenism have just benn getting stimulated.

BUSH... although, he spends too, much time trying to get along with everyone. He needs to be more Reagan'esque' and just lay it all out on the table and run with any one that will follow in rebuilding the legacy liberals so elloquently trashed for eight long years.

...you asked. Just my set of copper Lincolns.

100-1/2

 

[threegreen123]

I have lived in MA my whole life and I have one thing to say about Kerry. He has voted to raise my taxes 47 times...

just the facts

Well I have one thing to ask then...how would you pay for the (unnecessary) war then?? People bitch and moan about paying more taxes, but the second they see the opportunity to kick some a$$ they say lets go. This whole administration just has lack of common sense written all over it, I mean...is Bush really serious about the stuff he says (democratic civil Iraq soon)? Ask yourself this...is the world really safer from terror now? I would say its no better, and maybe worse. Can this many people really overlook all the things that were said that weren't true?? I mean, people wanted to get rid of clinton cause he got a da#n BJ, and this administration flat out lied or half-truthed us. How can you find that acceptable? Oh wait, its the media. I forgot. Oh wait Bush was misinformed. I forgot. Oh wait...(insert this and that excuse). I forgot. I just really can't believe any one would vote for Bush. Kerry is no gem, but comeon, he can't be worse.

 

[BFE]

KERRY...Didn't any of you Bush supporters read flying the line Vol. II on ALPA's history and how every republican f*cks unionized pilots over?

You mean like what Clinton did to the APA at AA in Feb 97?
Can we say PEB? Oh but he's a dem, we'll just forget that.

 

[prodigal]

No brainer. BUSH.
Libertarians have a lot going for them but are as yet unelectable (and would only serve to elect the Dem candidate) and are too far out there on some issues. Now if we could only merge the Libertarians and the Republicans. Oh, here's an idea . . . the Republicans could go back to their ideological roots and quit trying to outspend the dems (security issues aside).

 

[broken spoke]

Bush!!

Democrats vote democrat because they are democrats. It doesn't matter what Kerry stands for. Fact is, he doesn't stand for anything!! Most folks hate Pres. Bush because he is a Christian man with decent values. That's all. God Bless America!!

Cheers!!

 

[bpapaDC8]

BFE,

Yet, anti-labor Clinton (paraphrasing you) allowed the Northwest pilots to strike on August 28, 1998. What is the difference between these two events a year apart?

Every PEB is not necessarily an anti-labor device. Just ask the Eastern pilots who were screaming for Bush senior to appoint a PEB that never came.

Just my 10 cents, the first 2 cents are free

bpapa

 

[MJG]

Most folks hate Pres. Bush because he is a Christian man with decent values. That's all.

That is one of the most ignorant statements that I have ever read.

"Most" folks do not like Bush because of how he and his administration have run the country over the last four years, not because of his religion or moral values. Personally I think he is a respectable person despite his checkered history. But in my opinion he's been a lousy President. I could care less which religion he subscribes to or what his moral values are. He's failed to get the job done, period. That's why "most" of us don't like him as President.

 

[TonyC]

Yet, anti-labor Clinton (paraphrasing you) allowed the Northwest pilots to strike on August 28, 1998. What is the difference between these two events a year apart?

APA and ALPA


Difference between APA and ALPA, you ask?




AFL-CIO

 

[T206driver]

After the 9/11 act of war, Bush was supurb in the leading this country. On the other hand Bush's oil buddies are screwing us into the ground. Our jobs and our lifestyles are on the line with these outrageous fuel prices. THEY MUST COME DOWN or our recovery is toast. Point number two. Think about it, unions keep management, usually, from screwing the workers silly. Unions need manage ment to keep the paychecks coming in. A good balence and we can all keep our jobs.

 

[bpapaDC8]

Tony C,

The question was to provoke some thought. As a young CRAPer (Consevative Republican Airline Pilot) I posed a similar question about the APA PEB to my crashpad mate (Legislative Committee Chairman) who was trying to get me to vote for Gore. Needless to say some of the events surrounding the APA PEB made it clear that Clinton was not trying to screw labor and I am no longer a CRAPer.

Regarding APA versus ALPA I agree 100% about the AFL-CIO. I would be interested to hear you (A FedEx pilot) educate some folks about the differences in what a company union can do for you versus ALPA (AFL-CIO)

bpapa

 

[RichO]

Hey JonnyKnoxville, didn't you know it really is not Bush/Republicans screwing the Pilot's union, it's the pilot's themselves.....Each time a pilot group bends over, they're screwing the industry much more than Bush/Republican's can do.......

 

[JonnyKnoxville]

RICHO

It is the Republicans screwing pilots over which is fine with me...This just means that it is in our best interest as organized labor to vote democratic.

I see that you are/were in the military and I don't fault you for voting republican, it is in your best interest.

Simple as that.

 

[acapilot2003]

Bush of course

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Bush of course

Can you explian why or does the big font and bold red speak for you? BTW, Cuz isn't a good answer.

 

[skydrvr]

Kerry. No brainer for me.


Neither REP or DEM.

 

[TonyC]

Kerry. No brainer for me.

What an ironic juxtaposition of words.

 

[TonyC]

I would be interested to hear you (A FedEx pilot) educate some folks about the differences in what a company union can do for you versus ALPA (AFL-CIO)

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I can tell you that it doesn't make sense to reinvent the wheel, which is what you wind up doing in a Company union. Ultimately, the "in-house" union served a very good purpose which it then outgrew. Most anti-union pilots would have never joined ALPA. The in-house union was an educational experience for all.


You wouldn't got to AutoZone and buy all the parts to assemble your own car at home, would you?



The name of the game is RESOURCES.

 

[DornierDriver]

Kerry. Without hesitation.

 

[aspire]

Kerry.

Why? Becuase our current administration has, under the guise of fear, fear, and fear, brought this country into a war that has cost our nation not only countless billions of dollars but also the lives of our servicemen and women in the mean time lining their pockets along the way. If anyone thinks that the war in terror starts in Iraq then I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. By all definitions this war was unnessary. But, if we are going to fight the war on terror how about we start first with our buddies in Sadia Arabia where 15 of the 19 hijackers originated from. But we don't. Why? Because of Greed, Money, Oil, and Politics. In that order.
-aspire

 

[blueridge71]

BUSH!

And I've complained about the Kerry endorsement in a letter to the editors of Airline Pilot magazine.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

That is one of the most ignorant statements that I have ever read.

"Most" folks do not like Bush because of how he and his administration have run the country over the last four years, not because of his religion or moral values. Personally I think he is a respectable person despite his checkered history. But in my opinion he's been a lousy President. I could care less which religion he subscribes to or what his moral values are. He's failed to get the job done, period. That's why "most" of us don't like him as President.

Once a baby killing, drug loving , anti-family liberal, always a baby killing, drug loving , anti-family liberal. You liberals are comical, at best.

I assume you were o.k. with clinton. A little "head" in the oval office never hurt any one. What a joke.

 

[blueridge71]

Since we've reached the point of posting reasons, I'll add that I like Bush, even though I don't agree with all of his policies, mainly because he has done an excellent job with national security since 9-11. The Iraq War was long overdue (and going a lot better than the papers would have you believe). He has also been instrumental in helping to eliminate the WMDs in Iran and Libya. The fact that there hasn't been a major terrorist attack in the US since 9-11 is telling.

Bush's tax cuts have reversed the recession, which of course was brought on by the 9-11 attacks, which were more damaging to the airline industry than any labor issue that I can think of.

Additionally, I, like Bush and Reagan, am a social conservative. The murder of babies, abortion, is an important issue to me. The partial birth abortion bill passed Congress many times under Clinton and each time he vetoed it. The bill was signed into law under President Bush.

Furthermore, President Bush is the first president since Lincoln (that I know of) who has taken steps to eliminate slavery (of Africans in Africa). He also has started prosecuting people who engage in illegal sex tourism.

The Democrats and Kerry will subordinate our national defense to the UN, raise our taxes, appoint more judicial activists who legislate from the bench, allow the slaughter of thousands of babies, perpetuate class warfare and race baiting, and belittle my faith in God.

I don't dislike all Democrats. I could be satisfied with a Joe Lieberman presidency. Zell Miller is a good guy. I understand that ALPA is a union and, as such, is expected by its AFL-CIO cronies to rubber stamp the Democratic nominee, but as long as ALPA supports candidates that so squarely oppose my beliefs, I will not... and cannot in good conscience... support ALPA PAC. I like my job, but I love my country more.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Since we've reached the point of posting reasons, I'll add that I like Bush, even though I don't agree with all of his policies, mainly because he has done an excellent job with national security since 9-11. The Iraq War was long overdue (and going a lot better than the papers would have you believe). He has also been instrumental in helping to eliminate the WMDs in Iran and Libya. The fact that there hasn't been a major terrorist attack in the US since 9-11 is telling.

Bush's tax cuts have reversed the recession, which of course was brought on by the 9-11 attacks, which were more damaging to the airline industry than any labor issue that I can think of.

Additionally, I, like Bush and Reagan, am a social conservative. The murder of babies, abortion, is an important issue to me. The partial birth abortion bill passed Congress many times under Clinton and each time he vetoed it. The bill was signed into law under President Bush.

Furthermore, President Bush is the first president since Lincoln (that I know of) who has taken steps to eliminate slavery (of Africans in Africa). He also has started prosecuting people who engage in illegal sex tourism.

The Democrats and Kerry will subordinate our national defense to the UN, raise our taxes, appoint more judicial activists who legislate from the bench, allow the slaughter of thousands of babies, perpetuate class warfare and race baiting, and belittle my faith in God.

I don't dislike all Democrats. I could be satisfied with a Joe Lieberman presidency. Zell Miller is a good guy. I understand that ALPA is a union and, as such, is expected by its AFL-CIO cronies to rubber stamp the Democratic nominee, but as long as ALPA supports candidates that so squarely oppose my beliefs, I will not... and cannot in good conscience... support ALPA PAC. I like my job, but I love my country more.

BRAVO!

 

[MJG]

Once a baby killing, drug loving , anti-family liberal, always a baby killing, drug loving , anti-family liberal. You liberals are comical, at best.

I assume you were o.k. with clinton. A little "head" in the oval office never hurt any one. What a joke.

I stand corrected. This is the most ignorant thing I've ever read. Funny thing is that just because someone doesn't like Bush you're automatically branded a "liberal". Even funnier is that I'm a registered Republican. Go figure.