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Alpa Endorses Kerry?
- Thread starter AFELLOWAVIATOR
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Sphincter Boy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 150
InclusiveScope
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2002
- Posts
- 385
First of all, if I hear one more idiot say "no blood for oil", I'm gonna puke. What do you think the industrialized Western economies run on? Moonshine? Tobacco? Porn? (ok, maybe porn...) Oil is the most precious of all natural resources (although freshwater may surpass it soon). The US recognized Saudi Arabian oil as in our "vital national interest" in 1943 under FDR. Even a pacifist like Carter was so alarmed by the possibility of the US losing access to oil after the Iranian hostage crisis / Soviet invasion of Afghanistan that he developed the "Rapid Deployment Force" with the specific intent of protecting Middle Eastern Oil.
As for Iraq, take a look at the big picture. And the best way to look at the picture is a photo of the globe - at night. The vast majority of the troubled areas are those that are the landmasses that are dark at night. We need to bring Iraq - and the rest of the Middle East - into modern society. Take a look at the success Turkey has made since Ataturk remade Turkish society following WW I. Something similiar needs to be done. We are trying to drag them into the 21st century - and Al Queda is trying to drag them back to the 8th century.
If you want to read more on the subject, I recommend Samuel Huntington's "Clash of Civilizations", Professor John Gaddis's "Surprise, Security, and the American Perspective", and Professor Peter Barnett for the Naval War College's "Shrinking the Gap". Professor Barnett actually has a followup article to that in this months Esquire (the one with Carmen Electra on the cover.)
Although I am not a big fan of the neo-conservatives, the status quo in the Middle East is not permanent. Give Bush credit for being pro-active instead of reactive.
BUSH
As for Iraq, take a look at the big picture. And the best way to look at the picture is a photo of the globe - at night. The vast majority of the troubled areas are those that are the landmasses that are dark at night. We need to bring Iraq - and the rest of the Middle East - into modern society. Take a look at the success Turkey has made since Ataturk remade Turkish society following WW I. Something similiar needs to be done. We are trying to drag them into the 21st century - and Al Queda is trying to drag them back to the 8th century.
If you want to read more on the subject, I recommend Samuel Huntington's "Clash of Civilizations", Professor John Gaddis's "Surprise, Security, and the American Perspective", and Professor Peter Barnett for the Naval War College's "Shrinking the Gap". Professor Barnett actually has a followup article to that in this months Esquire (the one with Carmen Electra on the cover.)
Although I am not a big fan of the neo-conservatives, the status quo in the Middle East is not permanent. Give Bush credit for being pro-active instead of reactive.
BUSH
Tim47SIP
Serving for the USofA
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Posts
- 1,157
Typical!
After the 9/11 act of war, Bush was supurb in the leading this country. On the other hand Bush's oil buddies are screwing us into the ground. Our jobs and our lifestyles are on the line with these outrageous fuel prices. THEY MUST COME DOWN or our recovery is toast.
OK, explain how Bush is in bed with the big oil companies and how he is lining his pockets. Do you believe everything CNN or MSNBC says? I'll bet you think Mr. Moores films are factual, dont you? Do you remember Bush trying to get an energy bill passed before 911? Do you remember him stating that we needed to become less reliant on foreign oil? Do you remember the Dems voting no to drilling in Alaska and not supporting the endergy bill because it came from a Republican Administration? No, I didn't think so. I guess it is just easier to live in a make believe world and blame Bush for everything, like hollywood.
After the 9/11 act of war, Bush was supurb in the leading this country. On the other hand Bush's oil buddies are screwing us into the ground. Our jobs and our lifestyles are on the line with these outrageous fuel prices. THEY MUST COME DOWN or our recovery is toast.
OK, explain how Bush is in bed with the big oil companies and how he is lining his pockets. Do you believe everything CNN or MSNBC says? I'll bet you think Mr. Moores films are factual, dont you? Do you remember Bush trying to get an energy bill passed before 911? Do you remember him stating that we needed to become less reliant on foreign oil? Do you remember the Dems voting no to drilling in Alaska and not supporting the endergy bill because it came from a Republican Administration? No, I didn't think so. I guess it is just easier to live in a make believe world and blame Bush for everything, like hollywood.
acaTerry
SAPM
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2001
- Posts
- 2,393
Kerry has no direction and no values. He goes with the tide.
This is exactly why the American population is in the sorry shape it's in. Weak men, women who have no trace of femininity, and a teenage (and younger) generation who murders people on the wholesale. My teacher failed me on that test...kill him. That kid has something I want...kill him. The American public is pathetic. We have 3 standards now
1) Our bellies. We are the fattest nation in the civilized world. Gluttony: no values.
2) Our genitalia. We are so consumed with promiscuity that we have kids en masse that are in GRADE SCHOOL having sex. Why? Single mom scrogs whoever she wants and so will the kids. EVERY sitcom has its theme to be ALL about sex, and teaching kids in 3rd grade about BC is encouraging kids. The numbers are there. Pre teen sex has grown over 4000% since 1968. Incidentally, teen suicide amog teenage girls has also leapt astrnomically. Probably b/c the girls see themselves as nothing more valuable than a warm sex toy. Sex has been for marriage. Now it's not. What is falling apart now?...marriage. Divorce rate sky high. And now two men can marry eachother...can't you see the path? Promiscuity and self gratification: no values.
3) Our selfish view on advancement by stabbing. Ever help someone else? Probably not. I noticed that the "good ole boy" network at some airlines is despised among the civilian sector. Why? See, in the military, people have a mind set that is foriegn to todays American. It's called the common good. You have to look at the common good. Sometimes, you have to think of everyone else and do what's good for all. Whether it's scabbing, signing a lousy contract for "fear of your job" or something as simple as being courteous in traffic...it all comes back to you eventually. Why is everyone so aggressive on driving? Because at some time, someone else was aggressive to them. When someone cuts you a break in traffic, you in turn are more likely to do the same to someone else. The military guys think this way. They help each other out in getting jobs. But the civilan sector is looking for ways to cut the throat of their fellows. Selfishness and lack of morals: no values.
So go ahead and vote for Kerry. Be one of Duane Woerths sheep. Pretend that morality and self control are things of the past. Kerry is your man for that, he has no fabric. So Kerry is a pilot. BFD. Think of America as a whole. Kerry is bad for us all.
This is exactly why the American population is in the sorry shape it's in. Weak men, women who have no trace of femininity, and a teenage (and younger) generation who murders people on the wholesale. My teacher failed me on that test...kill him. That kid has something I want...kill him. The American public is pathetic. We have 3 standards now
1) Our bellies. We are the fattest nation in the civilized world. Gluttony: no values.
2) Our genitalia. We are so consumed with promiscuity that we have kids en masse that are in GRADE SCHOOL having sex. Why? Single mom scrogs whoever she wants and so will the kids. EVERY sitcom has its theme to be ALL about sex, and teaching kids in 3rd grade about BC is encouraging kids. The numbers are there. Pre teen sex has grown over 4000% since 1968. Incidentally, teen suicide amog teenage girls has also leapt astrnomically. Probably b/c the girls see themselves as nothing more valuable than a warm sex toy. Sex has been for marriage. Now it's not. What is falling apart now?...marriage. Divorce rate sky high. And now two men can marry eachother...can't you see the path? Promiscuity and self gratification: no values.
3) Our selfish view on advancement by stabbing. Ever help someone else? Probably not. I noticed that the "good ole boy" network at some airlines is despised among the civilian sector. Why? See, in the military, people have a mind set that is foriegn to todays American. It's called the common good. You have to look at the common good. Sometimes, you have to think of everyone else and do what's good for all. Whether it's scabbing, signing a lousy contract for "fear of your job" or something as simple as being courteous in traffic...it all comes back to you eventually. Why is everyone so aggressive on driving? Because at some time, someone else was aggressive to them. When someone cuts you a break in traffic, you in turn are more likely to do the same to someone else. The military guys think this way. They help each other out in getting jobs. But the civilan sector is looking for ways to cut the throat of their fellows. Selfishness and lack of morals: no values.
So go ahead and vote for Kerry. Be one of Duane Woerths sheep. Pretend that morality and self control are things of the past. Kerry is your man for that, he has no fabric. So Kerry is a pilot. BFD. Think of America as a whole. Kerry is bad for us all.
Last edited:
AFELLOWAVIATOR
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2002
- Posts
- 411
Out of hand
I think that this discussion (like most others on all computer discussion forum) has gotten out of hand and away from the original topic. It's turned into a political argument over who should be president and why or why not, and in some cases, the discussion is completely uncivilized. The fact that ALPA (and many other organiztions) endorse a candidate for office simply means that a particular candidate is more suited to help that organization, it means nothing more or nothing less. If you are an ALPA member you are still free to vote for whoever you want for whatever reasons you have. The fact is that G.W., strictly from an organized labor point of view, is creating some problems. For airline unions in particular, the Railway Labor Act and it's administrative body the National Mediation Board has become biased against unions to an unprecedented extent. A couple of years ago G.W. proclaimed that "there will be no airline strikes this summer." The NMB is a politically driven organization and always reflects the current administration to some extent; they really took Bush's statement to heart. The NMB now has essentially "frozen" many contract negotiations indefinately. For all practical purposes the option of a strike no longer exists which creates no incentive for companies to put any effort into contract negotiations. The balance of power between unions and companies has ceased to exist. G.W. has effectively used the NMB to neutralize ALPA and other airline labor unions. It's ALPA's belief that Kerry, in this instance, would be beneficial in steering the NMB back towards it's intended function: to facilitate and mediate negotiations as long as progress is being made toward an agreement. Once it's apparent that an agreement is not possible in mediation the parties need to be released so the final pressure to produce an agreement can be felt by both parties. The way things are now, it's all but impossible to be released from Mediation.
I think people are making way to big a deal about this endorsement. As many people have pointed out there are many issues beyond those specific to ALPA and everyone has to decide which issues are most important to them. Vote for who you think is best, it's your right and nobody is telling you not to do that. On a side note, airline pilots are interesting in that they are probably the only group of unionized employees that tends to be largely Republican voters. This is probably due to a number of factors including: income level, prior military service in many cases, family background (generally middle class or above) and educational level. Airline pilots may be the only group of unionized employees out there that have more in common with the management team than they do with ordinary working stiffs. The emergence and the growth of the regional airline industry may go a long way towards changing this.
I think that this discussion (like most others on all computer discussion forum) has gotten out of hand and away from the original topic. It's turned into a political argument over who should be president and why or why not, and in some cases, the discussion is completely uncivilized. The fact that ALPA (and many other organiztions) endorse a candidate for office simply means that a particular candidate is more suited to help that organization, it means nothing more or nothing less. If you are an ALPA member you are still free to vote for whoever you want for whatever reasons you have. The fact is that G.W., strictly from an organized labor point of view, is creating some problems. For airline unions in particular, the Railway Labor Act and it's administrative body the National Mediation Board has become biased against unions to an unprecedented extent. A couple of years ago G.W. proclaimed that "there will be no airline strikes this summer." The NMB is a politically driven organization and always reflects the current administration to some extent; they really took Bush's statement to heart. The NMB now has essentially "frozen" many contract negotiations indefinately. For all practical purposes the option of a strike no longer exists which creates no incentive for companies to put any effort into contract negotiations. The balance of power between unions and companies has ceased to exist. G.W. has effectively used the NMB to neutralize ALPA and other airline labor unions. It's ALPA's belief that Kerry, in this instance, would be beneficial in steering the NMB back towards it's intended function: to facilitate and mediate negotiations as long as progress is being made toward an agreement. Once it's apparent that an agreement is not possible in mediation the parties need to be released so the final pressure to produce an agreement can be felt by both parties. The way things are now, it's all but impossible to be released from Mediation.
I think people are making way to big a deal about this endorsement. As many people have pointed out there are many issues beyond those specific to ALPA and everyone has to decide which issues are most important to them. Vote for who you think is best, it's your right and nobody is telling you not to do that. On a side note, airline pilots are interesting in that they are probably the only group of unionized employees that tends to be largely Republican voters. This is probably due to a number of factors including: income level, prior military service in many cases, family background (generally middle class or above) and educational level. Airline pilots may be the only group of unionized employees out there that have more in common with the management team than they do with ordinary working stiffs. The emergence and the growth of the regional airline industry may go a long way towards changing this.
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