ALPA endorses Clinton

[Rez O. Lewshun]

During the decline of Eatern Airlines, many pilots were dismayed to find that Bush, Sr. their President, the one they had voted for was politically siding with Frankie "Smooth Talk" Lorenzo.

The EAL MEC was quite fustrating with Bush Sr and pushed ALPA to endorse a pro pilot presidential Candidate in the 1992 election. ALPA endorsed Bill Clinton. ALPA pilots went ape-sh!t. How dare ALPA not align themselves with my values!!! Well, ALPA never said they were align with your values.. they just said they were aligned with Air Line Pilot profession values... The typical ALPA pilots simply assumed ALPA was aligned with his values..

The phone lines from ALPA to the WH were connected and used during the Clinton years. ALPA called the WH, built relationships and was able to move the ball further down field.

When Bush jr was elected, the phone lines were ripped from the wall.

ALPA's only concern is the Air Line Pilot agenda. It has no position on social issues such as gay marriage or criminal law, or how many guns one should have...

What is best for the Air Line Pilot profession is a pro pilot president and a pro pilot Congress.


If ALPA rejects Obama, Hilary or Edwards AND they get elected the phone lines will not be re-installed. ALPA must play to all three candidates. The fact is Hilary or Obama could support and push thru significant legislation that would better our careers. Many pilots want RLA reform, National Sen. List, Nat'l pay rates and the ability to conduct a National Strike. The chances of any of that happening are much better with Hilary or Obama than the GOP candidates....


So what is ALPA to do... most Air Line Pilots are gushingly GOP.... like a chicken voting for Frank Purdue..... However, if Hilary ot Obama is elected shall ALPA reject them?

Suvery says......

Recall the Age 60 survey with the loaded question... "If the Age 60 law were to change, shall ALPA work with the changes" (my words)

You might see a similar survey that reads "If Hilary is elected shall ALPA support her Presidency and work to pass pro pilot legislation?"

You can use Hilary (or Obama) to get the pilot legislation we need to help restore this profession... and fight her on all the other crap she loves to pull...

Thoughts?

 

[hawkerjet]

I don't like the idea that an organization, such as a union, influencing it's members on who to vote for. The organization cannot place a vote only the people can and they should make that decision without any undue pressure.
my .02

 

[ShutupandFly]

Isn't alpa one of those evil lobbyist that democrats are always crying about.

 

[Oh-ryan]

During the decline of Eatern Airlines, many pilots were dismayed to find that Bush, Sr. their President, the one they had voted for was politically siding with Frankie "Smooth Talk" Lorenzo.

The EAL MEC was quite fustrating with Bush Sr and pushed ALPA to endorse a pro pilot presidential Candidate in the 1992 election. ALPA endorsed Bill Clinton. ALPA pilots went ape-sh!t. How dare ALPA not align themselves with my values!!! Well, ALPA never said they were align with your values.. they just said they were aligned with Air Line Pilot profession values... The typical ALPA pilots simply assumed ALPA was aligned with his values..

The phone lines from ALPA to the WH were connected and used during the Clinton years. ALPA called the WH, built relationships and was able to move the ball further down field.

When Bush jr was elected, the phone lines were ripped from the wall.

ALPA's only concern is the Air Line Pilot agenda. It has no position on social issues such as gay marriage or criminal law, or how many guns one should have...

What is best for the Air Line Pilot profession is a pro pilot president and a pro pilot Congress.


If ALPA rejects Obama, Hilary or Edwards AND they get elected the phone lines will not be re-installed. ALPA must play to all three candidates. The fact is Hilary or Obama could support and push thru significant legislation that would better our careers. Many pilots want RLA reform, National Sen. List, Nat'l pay rates and the ability to conduct a National Strike. The chances of any of that happening are much better with Hilary or Obama than the GOP candidates....


So what is ALPA to do... most Air Line Pilots are gushingly GOP.... like a chicken voting for Frank Purdue..... However, if Hilary ot Obama is elected shall ALPA reject them?

Suvery says......

Recall the Age 60 survey with the loaded question... "If the Age 60 law were to change, shall ALPA work with the changes" (my words)

You might see a similar survey that reads "If Hilary is elected shall ALPA support her Presidency and work to pass pro pilot legislation?"

You can use Hilary (or Obama) to get the pilot legislation we need to help restore this profession... and fight her on all the other crap she loves to pull...

Thoughts?

ALPA will never be a healthy, cohesive organization as long this problem exists. It's like raising your family as vegetarians, while you go to work at a meat packing plant.

 

[atrdriver]

You can use Hilary (or Obama) to get the pilot legislation we need to help restore this profession... and fight her on all the other crap she loves to pull...

Thoughts?

Doesn't really matter what this profession looks like if the current crop of socialist democrats get the country changed into what they want it changed into. Maybe you can ignore their policies, but I can't. Yes, maybe it's cutting off my nose to spite my face, but I'm an American first, and a pilot somewhere after that.

 

[sqwkvfr]

Good move.

Now those airline profits that we all hoped would go toward increasing pilot compensation will be used to pay for increased taxes on corporate profits (corporations are ALL evil, ya know) and fuel, and paying to comply with new environmental laws designed to punish companies that emit that carbon that airliners expel so profusely.

If she has her way, we'll be moved around the country on electric trains.

Her vision of the world has little place for this industry or airline pilots.

That "crap she loves to pull" could very well eliminate the need for ALPA'a existence.

 

[PilotSkydiver]

If she has her way, we'll be moved around the country on electric trains.

That "crap she loves to pull" could very well eliminate the need for ALPA'a existence.

What's wrong with electric trains?

 

[sqwkvfr]

What's wrong with electric trains?

The people who drive them will replace you.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Doesn't really matter what this profession looks like if the current crop of socialist democrats get the country changed into what they want it changed into. Maybe you can ignore their policies, but I can't. Yes, maybe it's cutting off my nose to spite my face, but I'm an American first, and a pilot somewhere after that.

What is wrong with being an American and an Air Line Pilot.... why do you have to choose? IOW, effective politics allows one to work the conflict, catch 22 or paradox. As long as you believe you have to choose we will stay in decline...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Her vision of the world has little place for this industry or airline pilots.

That "crap she loves to pull" could very well eliminate the need for ALPA'a existence.

Compared to Bush she will be favorable to Air Line Pilot agendas...

What the GOP candidates? Are they better for pilots?

 

[sqwkvfr]

Compared to Bush she will be favorable to Air Line Pilot agendas...

I'm sorry, is he running again?

I must have missed his announcement.

 

[atrdriver]

Compared to Bush she will be favorable to Air Line Pilot agendas...

What the GOP candidates? Are they better for pilots?

Her husband wasn't, what exactly makes you think that she would be?

 

[atrdriver]

What is wrong with being an American and an Air Line Pilot.... why do you have to choose? IOW, effective politics allows one to work the conflict, catch 22 or paradox. As long as you believe you have to choose we will stay in decline...

Because, like it or not, I (and many others) believe that the current Democrat party is harmful to this country. They may indeed be better for labor, although I have not seen evidence of that for many years, but I believe that they will do harm that can't be undone to the country as a whole.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'm sorry, is he running again?

I must have missed his announcement.

How about quoting my entire post and replying to it?

Her husband wasn't, what exactly makes you think that she would be?

Well,... ALPA sent a questionaire to all Preisdential candidates.. only four responded. If labor is insignificant..especially a small 60,000 member union..why would they reply.. of those four it was Clinton, Obama, Edwards and Kucinich...

Because, like it or not, I (and many others) believe that the current Democrat party is harmful to this country.

Like it or not... many others think the current GOP party is harmful to this country...

They may indeed be better for labor, although I have not seen evidence of that for many years, but I believe that they will do harm that can't be undone to the country as a whole.

So where does that leave you and the Air Line Pilot profession?

 

[atrdriver]

How about quoting my entire post and replying to it?




Well,... ALPA sent a questionaire to all Preisdential candidates.. only four responded. If labor is insignificant..especially a small 60,000 member union..why would they reply.. of those four it was Clinton, Obama, Edwards and Kucinich...




Like it or not... many others think the current GOP party is harmful to this country...





So where does that leave you and the Air Line Pilot profession?

I'll bet Clinton the 1st responded to his questionaire too. And he certainly didn't end up being much of a friend to us, did he? And I already told you, while it may be better for this profession to vote Democrat (although I still have not seen proof lately), as an American first I will not vote for a party that wishes to further erode my constitutional rights, or do any of the other things that I believe the Dems will do to harm this country.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'll bet Clinton the 1st responded to his questionaire too. And he certainly didn't end up being much of a friend to us, did he?

Tell us how he was or wasn't? Fact is the phone lines from ALPA to the Clinton WH worked. What is the key to any successful relationship? communication.

And I already told you, while it may be better for this profession to vote Democrat (although I still have not seen proof lately),

Maybe you haven't tried hard enough...

as an American first I will not vote for a party that wishes to further erode my constitutional rights, or do any of the other things that I believe the Dems will do to harm this country.

So you sarcifice the profession, your ability to pay your house note, feed your family, cloth them, and improve your quality of life so you can feel good about not eroding consitutional rights...??

Can't many fingers be placed at the current party and its eroding of consitutional rights?

Again.. you are missing the tact. Vote your job. I gurantee you if you had to sell your house like many airline pilots have had to do in the last 6 years, the first thing your wife wants to know is how and why. She isn't going to be thinking about the constitution.

While you are worried about the eroding of the consitution, your mindset erodes the Air Line Pilot profession. As long as thier are many that think like you we will always be weak.

You can do both. You can protect the consitition the way you think it needs to be protected and protect the Pilot profession.. Who said you have to choose....

 

[atrdriver]

OK Rez, you know it all. So tell me what have the Democrats done to HELP pilots in the past 20 years? I seem to remember Clinton stopping the American pilots from striking, plus a Clinton appointed judge awarding a rather large judgement against their pilots, as well as another ruling against the United pilots. So you tell me all the great things that the Democrats have done for us.

And yes, I have tried pretty hard to try to find good things about the Democrats. Haven't found any yet.

 

[sqwkvfr]

How about quoting my entire post and replying to it?

How about making a real comparison instead of throwing an easy target under the bus?

Besides, I read the last paragraph of your post....it didn't make any sense to me.

To wit:

What the GOP candidates? Are they better for pilots?

You see, Rez, this is the number one reason that a whole bunch of people don't want anything to do with unions. Forming an alliance with an unsavory character like the never-did-a-damn-thing-in-her-life wife of Bill Clinton is just not something that a whole bunch of us aren't interested in being a part of.

We're even less interested in someone else choosing to send her our money.

I think endorsing candidates should just plain stop. Unions are hurting bad enough without alienating a large portion of their members or potential members. The way I see it, political endorsements are little more than a way for union leaders to suck up to whomever they decide to endorse.

Seriously, how many people are actually gonna be influenced by an endorsement compared to the number of people it's gonna discourage?

I don't think it's worth the effort. It's like spending $100 dollars in political for a small chance to get $25 back.

 

[MJ42]

Tell us how he was or wasn't? Fact is the phone lines from ALPA to the Clinton WH worked. What is the key to any successful relationship? communication.






Maybe you haven't tried hard enough...




So you sarcifice the profession, your ability to pay your house note, feed your family, cloth them, and improve your quality of life so you can feel good about not eroding consitutional rights...?? Stop trying to lay a guilt trip and force your beliefs on us. YES! I have morals and my own conscience to follow. I can pay my bills just fine with or without flying!

Can't many fingers be placed at the current party and its eroding of consitutional rights?
Depends on who you ask. I.E. Wire taps to catch radical muslims=good.

Again.. you are missing the tact. Vote your job. I gurantee you if you had to sell your house like many airline pilots have had to do in the last 6 years, the first thing your wife wants to know is how and why. She isn't going to be thinking about the constitution.

I've been furloughed and kept my house, but I don't count on an airline being stable therefore I plan accordingly!

While you are worried about the eroding of the consitution, your mindset erodes the Air Line Pilot profession. As long as thier are many that think like you we will always be weak.

So what, my life has much more to it then worrying about fixing ALPA. I do my job well then go home to enjoy my life . Strength lies in chacter not in a union that is misguided from the top down. You preach unity but in reality pilots look after themselves, however, your effort to unify pilots is noble.

You can do both. You can protect the consitition the way you think it needs to be protected and protect the Pilot profession.. Who said you have to choose....

If you vote with your conscience and stand by your morals and princples how can you do both? No way I'll vote for a Dem. There's more to life then flying!


Oh, yeah... what sqwkvfr said above, goes for me too!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You see, Rez, this is the number one reason that a whole bunch of people don't want anything to do with unions.

But yet, you joined a profession, with free will I assume, that has a union. Why?

Forming an alliance with an unsavory character like the never-did-a-damn-thing-in-her-life wife of Bill Clinton is just not something that a whole bunch of us aren't interested in being a part of.

Again.. you joined the profession, but you don't want to work the issues? Your mentality is self defeating.

We're even less interested in someone else choosing to send her our money.

What do you mean by this? How is your money being sent to a candidate by someone?

I think endorsing candidates should just plain stop.

Why?

Unions are hurting bad enough without alienating a large portion of their members or potential members.

Hardly anyone says... "I hope I am really politically effective when I become a professional Air Line Pilot." All of the professions are politically connected. It doesn't matter which one you choose. Regardless, if you are a lawyer, doctor, etc... they are all tapped into CapHill.

And so are our companies...They give millions to politicians to get the legislation they want and they don't care about Dems, GOP, Hilary, Mitt, etc... they just do it...

The way I see it, political endorsements are little more than a way for union leaders to suck up to whomever they decide to endorse.

Wrong!.. As I said... the game in CapHill is issue orienentated.. not party. For the average citizen like you and me, it is all party polarized.. similiar to commercial branding. Coca Cola wants your allegiance to Coke, not Pepsi. However, does the GOP cater to you? Is the GOP customized to your politics?

The goal is to become issue oreintated. Let's get back to Hilary. fact is...Hilary is better for Air Line Pilot issues than any GOP candidate. So if Hilary gets elected, then Air Line Pilots should work with her on pilot issues only! On social, defense, whatever, each airline pilot should join the side of the issue that they support. Issue oriented politics is the way to go...

Seriously, how many people are actually gonna be influenced by an endorsement compared to the number of people it's gonna discourage?

A valid point.

However, that says more about the membership than ALPA. Again.. ALPA only cares about pilot legislation and will work with the politician that favors the ALPA agenda. On other issues such as health care..its up to each indivicual pilot to work that issue...

I don't think it's worth the effort. It's like spending $100 dollars in political for a small chance to get $25 back.

I cringe at your self defeatist attitude.

The money that ALPA spends is from voluntary money given to its PAC. ALPA does not use dues money. But you knew that right?

Money buys access and access guarantees influence. it is the way the game has been played for decades.. long before you and I. You canrefuse to play, pack up your marbles and go home, but the game will still be played and you will be effected...

Don't be branded and don't be played... work the issue.

 

[atrdriver]

Not to mention Rez, when was the last time that ALPA endorsed a Republican? ALPA spends all it's time and energy trying to get a Democrat elected, then if the Democrat loses we seem surprised that the Republican isn't falling all over himself to help out cause. Or, if the Democrat wins, we seem surprised that they don't help us out too much either, simply because they can't be trusted.

 

[atrdriver]

Money buys access and access guarantees influence. it is the way the game has been played for decades.. long before you and I. You canrefuse to play, pack up your marbles and go home, but the game will still be played and you will be effected...

If that's true, then why did Clinton not allow the American pilots to strike? Why did Clinton appointed judges slam pilots who were trying to do what was right for them? Access doesn't guarantee a thing when it comes to Washington. And all giving them money guarantees is that you will have less money when you are done.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Stop trying to lay a guilt trip and force your beliefs on us. YES! I have morals and my own conscience to follow. I can pay my bills just fine with or without flying!

The only belief I am trying to push is the belief in the Air Line Pilot profession and the fair and reasonable compensation of it. Oh and safety too. Do you share those beliefs?

Depends on who you ask. I.E. Wire taps to catch radical muslims=good.

You mean radical terrorist. Otherwise we could use wire taps for radical christians too.....right?

I've been furloughed and kept my house, but I don't count on an airline being stable therefore I plan accordingly!

Nice.. plan.... I guess... Plan for the worst...hope for the best? Hope isn't a gameplan.

Guys like you will allow those that control the distibution of wealth to furlough us from time to time.. always keeping us one step forward....two steps back... that is sustaining... not propsering...

So what, my life has much more to it then worrying about fixing ALPA. I do my job well then go home to enjoy my life .

Guys with this attitude are the worst. What do you think enables you such a luxury....? To do your job and go home and enjoy life?

Strength lies in chacter not in a union that is misguided from the top down.

Why not put character in the union?

You preach unity but in reality pilots look after themselves, however, your effort to unify pilots is noble.

Agreed... let's change that...

....If you vote with your conscience and stand by your morals and princples how can you do both? No way I'll vote for a Dem. There's more to life then flying!

I am not saying vote for Hilary..or the Dems, although that would yield a proper NMB... just understand why ALPA leans towards Dems and don't reject ALPA for doing so....

If you vote with your conscience and stand by your morals and princples how can you do both?

by being issue oreientated... not party orienented.

No way I'll vote for a Dem. There's more to life then flying!

Then, respectfully, find a profession that allows you to support yourself, the profession and your consciensce...

Oh, yeah... what sqwkvfr said above, goes for me too!

Do you want to send your kid to the college of choice or the local community colloege?

"Sorry you can't go to State son, but we fought [insert social issue here] real good for 20 years"


Do you want to pay 40% taxes on 200,000 (120,000 usable)
or 30% taxes on 100,000 (70,000 usable)?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Not to mention Rez, when was the last time that ALPA endorsed a Republican?

During the Pres. campaign, ALPA sends a questionaire to ALL candidates... coincidently only a select few respond... are you surprised that NOT ONE GOP candidate replies.

ALPA spends all it's time and energy trying to get a Democrat elected, then if the Democrat loses we seem surprised that the Republican isn't falling all over himself to help out cause.

You got it backwards.. ALPA invites all candidates to particapte in pilot issues... only the Dems choose to engage. Is that ALPA's fault? Then then chickens vote for Frank Purdue while wondering why ALPA suxs...

Or, if the Democrat wins, we seem surprised that they don't help us out too much either, simply because they can't be trusted.

Oh...so GOP can be trusted and Dems can't?

If that's true, then why did Clinton not allow the American pilots to strike? Why did Clinton appointed judges slam pilots who were trying to do what was right for them?

Clinton did what he was asked.... I'll get some info for you.... more later...

Access doesn't guarantee a thing when it comes to Washington. And all giving them money guarantees is that you will have less money when you are done.

Sounds like rhetoric to me... can you specify..

 

[atrdriver]

Yeah, I'm sure that APA asked Clinton to issue a PEB to stop their strike. And I'm sure that they asked him to make sure his judge ruled against them for millions. I didn't say the GOP could be trusted, but I certainly trust them more than I trust a Democrat. WHO CARES if they return some questionaire? That just means they are making promises that they aren't going to keep. Whatever. And you still have not told me what any Democrat has done for pilots in the last 20 years or so.

 

[atrdriver]

During the Pres. campaign, ALPA sends a questionaire to ALL candidates... coincidently only a select few respond... are you surprised that NOT ONE GOP candidate replies.

And do you really think that the candidates themselves take the time to answer those things? I would be willing to bet that they never see them, that a staffer fills out the ALPA questionaire, along with the thousands of others they they get from every special interest group.

 

[MJ42]

The only belief I am trying to push is the belief in the Air Line Pilot profession and the fair and reasonable compensation of it. Oh and safety too. Do you share those beliefs?
Absoultely, and I work hard to do my part.



You mean radical terrorist. Otherwise we could use wire taps for radical christians too.....right? Correct, but I think most would agree radical muslims are a bigger threat to the masses then some nut who wants to blow up an abortion clinic. I'm adopted and therefore against abortion but can't understand radical behavior from any group trying to FORCE their beliefs on me!



Nice.. plan.... I guess... Plan for the worst...hope for the best? Hope isn't a gameplan. No, it isn't. But being prepared is!

Guys like you will allow those that control the distibution of wealth to furlough us from time to time.. always keeping us one step forward....two steps back... that is sustaining... not propsering...You're kidding right? Just because I'm smart and plan ahead in a very cyclical industry I allow "those that control the distribution of wealth to furlough us" . Sorry man, I fought to get to where I'm at am won't let those people take that away without a fight.




Guys with this attitude are the worst. What do you think enables you such a luxury....? To do your job and go home and enjoy life?
Sorry for enjoying my life, I'll try to be a little more miserable. I'm allowed said luxury because I've been working my a$$ off for 17 years in this industy. Watched PFT guys get hired in the mid 90's while I fought for a CFI job. Flying 135 night freight. My ANG career. Being furloughed after 9/11. Being a dedicated professioinal. And yes Rez, even supporting ALPA...No Rez, guys who think they're alway right and force their opinion on others(like you) are the worst!




Why not put character in the union? I've tried and will continue to try. But I've seen so much dissent recently. From age 65, to US Airways merger, future mergers, past BK's there is a lot of bitterness.




Agreed... let's change that...



I am not saying vote for Hilary..or the Dems, although that would yield a proper NMB... just understand why ALPA leans towards Dems and don't reject ALPA for doing so....That, to me, says vote for her. Who's rejecting ALPA, like I've said, I'm doing my part.







by being issue oreientated... not party orienented. There are other important issues in life besides ALPA issues




Then, respectfully, find a profession that allows you to support yourself, the profession and your consciensce...I have the FREEDOM to choose my profession, I love having flying career. I can't help the way the industry is run. I do what I can to change what I feel is wrong. Respectfully, keep your opinions out of my choice of professions




Do you want to send your kid to the college of choice or the local community colloege?

"Sorry you can't go to State son, but we fought [insert social issue here] real good for 20 years"


Do you want to pay 40% taxes on 200,000 (120,000 usable)
or 30% taxes on 100,000 (70,000 usable)? Don't know what you mean by these statements, my children will go to the college of their choice because of my financial plan for there future, whether I earn my money by flying or some other career. And no I don't want to pay that much in taxes, lower taxes=good for all.

Maybe your efforts would work better if you did not come off like you are forcing your opinions on those who differ.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

And do you really think that the candidates themselves take the time to answer those things? I would be willing to bet that they never see them, that a staffer fills out the ALPA questionaire, along with the thousands of others they they get from every special interest group.

So whats your point?

 

[atrdriver]

So whats your point?

What do you think it is? These candidates care about you, me, and every other airline pilot only as long as they think they can get our vote. Once they are in office it's the same old crap. So lets vote in somebody who is concerned about the country and it's security.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What do you think it is? These candidates care about you, me, and every other airline pilot only as long as they think they can get our vote. Once they are in office it's the same old crap. So lets vote in somebody who is concerned about the country and it's security.

hmmm... like Dubai Ports and Bush's guest worker program?

Let's be pragmatic here.... ALPA seeks out politicans that are pro pilot.... sure more are Dem.. but that isn't an ALPA requirement... or even hope...

Does ALPA have to support ones personal choice for President that includes the social issues?

Can ALPA focus on pilot issues and only pilot issues? Do you want ALPA to focus on social issues? (I don't).

If Hilary gets elected and ALPA is able to push through pro pilot legislation that enhances your career... is that ok? Will you reject your career enhancements based on morals and principles? Can you support ALPA on pro pilot legislation and fight Hilary on other issues...

Trying to be black and white in a very grey area will not work...