ALPA drive starting at Jetblue...

[PHXFLYR]

JET41 has hit the nail on the head. First, JBPA failed because no goals were ever defined or achieved. Second, many of us were turned off by the rhetorical chest thumping by a few vociferous pilots who continue to rant today like little children. Finally, JBPA failed because it lost in a landslide 2-1 vote--not just 350 pilots short, but 2 out of 3 pilots said, "no thank you". A union drive in this next year is just plain S-T-U-P-I-D because you're unlikely to sway enough people when you've given the company no time to even address the issues at hand.

Just wondering how long time-wise one should give the company to "address the issues at hand" before one says enough is enough ? Haven't you given them enough time already ??

PHXFLYR

 

[OurMoney1]

Is it true that Dave Barger built a LEANING TOWER OF EXPECTATIONS during the JBPA union movement?

I had a JBLU pilot in the JS last week going into SDF who believes the Barger brothers will make right where Neelman failed.

Is that the general sense or are pilots happy with where they sit in respect to their peers. It would seem that an ALPA movement would be succesful if leadership fails to follow through.

I must say the LEANING TOWER OF EXPECTATIONS did get a laugh from us...when it falls I hope you guys are brough back into reality.

 

[aewanabe]

I'm a 190 FO in the bottom 200 who voted for JBPA and has already sent my info to ALPA. I actually had a captain tell me we were flying an RJ and needed MY wages to be competitive with RJ operators, WHILE WE WERE FLYING JFK-SDQ WITH 98 FREAKIN PEOPLE WEIGHING 114K!! I asked him if he thought he was an RJ pilot when he was in the right seat of the bus flying JFK-BOS...

Pilots in general are short-sighted and selfish but we've got some extreme examples here... and hell no I'm not happy where we sit in respect to our peers/

 

[Fubijaakr]

Unfortunately, I believe there are enough B6 pilots with residual heartburn at ALPA that this election will fail worse than the JBPA election.

JBPA was the best hope for a union at B6 and I think we've all seen how the rank and file feels.

 

[Dizel8]

JBPA was the best hope for a union at B6 and I think we've all seen how the rank and file feels.

Well, 33% feels pretty bad about the outcome!

Time will tell what transpires, but the longer this drags on, positive changes that is, the better, since more will see it for the scam it really is.

Of course, never mind the fact, that certain issues simply cannot be resolved outside of a CBA.

 

[JetFumes]

Well, 33% feels pretty bad about the outcome!

Time will tell what transpires, but the longer this drags on, positive changes that is, the better, since more will see it for the scam it really is.

Of course, never mind the fact, that certain issues simply cannot be resolved outside of a CBA.

Agreed! And its beginning to look like a fairly weak response already!

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Of course, never mind the fact, that certain issues simply cannot be resolved outside of a CBA.

You mean like a B plan and better health care benefits?

Exactly how did management explain to us how we didn't need either? I cannot remember.

 

[JBPA]

You mean like a B plan and better health care benefits?

Exactly how did management explain to us how we didn't need either? I cannot remember.

They didn't have to. There were plenty of our 'peers' doing their dirty work.

 

[tailhookah]

Fellas...

Give it time. It wont take long for the rank and file to figure out the committees are going to be treated just like the other attempts by the pilot group to raise our quality of life. The big media marketing blitz by B2 (Barger Brothers) and RC followed by great work done by our pilots only to be belittled and shot down by DB and the Board... another minor cost neutral change in our future around next October.

Don't you guys see the pattern forming? We heard and saw MB multiple times per week during the vote window and since the vote it took until yesterday to hear from him... 6 weeks later!

We will be treated like this until we bring in Alpa. The inhouse failed for two reasons. 1) Pilots wanted to give this committee process a shot. The group was just not ready to commit to a union. 2) The inhouse filed too early and didn't have the transition plan worked out properly to convince enough pilots to vote yes.

When one bashes Alpa you have to really ask yourself one thing... is it really alpa's fault or the MEC's? Yeah there are some "big business" things I don't like about Alpa, but on the other hand there are some big business things I really do like about it...

USAPA is bleeding money, especially after the Hudson "water landing". The pilots are funding the excess w/ special assessments... getting "spendy" real quickly.

Colgan Air hadn't paid a single dime to Alpa (since they had just become alpa) yet Alpa rolled out the war chest, helpers, lawyers etc. to help Colgan w/ the Buffalo crash. No special assessments required and Alpa rolls in w/ the experienced staff that will circle the wagons and protect the pilots.

An inhouse doesn't have the resources to do the job. WN's only does b/c they had the company's blessing and help at the begining and now they've built up their huge war chest and have the backing to afford major incidents. A small inhouse at Jetblue wouldn't be able to deal w/ anything, even minor, without assessing pilots w/ special assessments... something that could get real expensive really quickly. Even the 1-2% union costs are excessive for many... think about it.

Alpa will come around. It will happen. The pilot group will come around and see that it will be necessary when our great leadership fails us again. It will be worth the wait. Just stay professional and continue to "talk" w/ your fellow pilots about why we need a CBA... like I said, it wont be long before the B2's prove to us that it was all hollow and shallow rhetoric. They have had a lot of practice doing this over the last few years... they are following a proven template and will keep our wages and contract in the gutter until we take control over our career.

Tail...

 

[Fubijaakr]

Colgan Air hadn't paid a single dime to Alpa (since they had just become alpa) yet Alpa rolled out the war chest, helpers, lawyers etc. to help Colgan w/ the Buffalo crash. No special assessments required and Alpa rolls in w/ the experienced staff that will circle the wagons and protect the pilots.

This says it all. God forbid something untoward happens to a B6 flight. The Company, Airbus/Embrarer, the FAA and the NTSB will all have seats at the IIC meetings. The pilots will not.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

This says it all. God forbid something untoward happens to a B6 flight. The Company, Airbus/Embrarer, the FAA and the NTSB will all have seats at the IIC meetings. The pilots will not.

How do you defend yourself if you aren't even at the fact gathering discussion....

And is it easier to blame someone who has passed on, and no one else is there to speak up...

Another point...

As long a jb pilots are not covered by the RLA there will be given pay, health and retirement consummate with all other employees.

Yet pilots bring education, experience and responsibility much more than rampers and gate agents. It would be illegal for the jb to give the pilots a different 401K...

However, if the pilots were under the RLA, then the company would be obligated by law to give them the health, pay and 401k they deserve...

 

[kommutrdog]

None of this will matter by 2010.

The global economy is just going to crater, bleed out and flatline.

Your 401k is now a 201k soon to be a 101k.

Fractional reserve banking/fiat currency machine is running in reverse at full tilt. How is any union, JBPA, ALPO, whatever, going to change that?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

None of this will matter by 2010.

The global economy is just going to crater, bleed out and flatline.

Your 401k is now a 201k soon to be a 101k.

Fractional reserve banking/fiat currency machine is running in reverse at full tilt. How is any union, JBPA, ALPO, whatever, going to change that?

Why would you exepct ALPA to change it?

 

[Whiskerbizkit]

JET41 has hit the nail on the head. First, JBPA failed because no goals were ever defined or achieved. Second, many of us were turned off by the rhetorical chest thumping by a few vociferous pilots who continue to rant today like little children. Finally, JBPA failed because it lost in a landslide 2-1 vote--not just 350 pilots short, but 2 out of 3 pilots said, "no thank you". A union drive in this next year is just plain S-T-U-P-I-D because you're unlikely to sway enough people when you've given the company no time to even address the issues at hand.[/quote]

And how much time do we give them? They had the time, remember the PCRB report? that came out in what,May 08'? and NOTHING was done. Now, it March 09' and what has happened, we are going to have a NEW commitee to survey the pilot group and it will be months before our CONCERNS are brought up again. Sorry, the ball was droped yet again by MGT and its time for some real action.

 

[kommutrdog]

Rez,

I don't expect them to change that. My point is that it just won't matter if you're union or not.

20% unemployment does not make for a strong bargaining position for anyone.