ALPA drive starting at Jetblue...

[BigMotorToter]

ALPA Drive Starting at Jetblue...

Please call ALPA's Ron Rindfleisch @ (703) 689-4179 for details.

 

[BigMotorToter]

Here is his email also:

[email protected]

 

[Jet41]

If this starts now it'll have about as munch success as JBPA. Those that are organizing this drive need to study the real reasons why JBPA failed. If the standard response is to assume that somehow 66% of the pilot group are Kool-ad drinkers or in managements hip pocket they are sorely mistaken, this simply isn't the case. Be better prepared in knowing what the pilot group as a whole wants and needs, disregard the 5 or 10% that represents the extremes of both sides. Talk to the hundreds of pilots that you'll find between either extreme, you might be surprised are what you find and hear.

 

[J32driver]

Jet41...

Enlighten us please. Tell us what they are waiting for??? Because they just passed on a GOLDEN opportunity.

 

[BigMotorToter]

In spite of what appears as a lopsided vote, 33%/67%, a union at Jetblue only needs an additional 350 pilots or so. That would give us the 50% + 1 we need.

There are quite a few pilots here who wanted ALPA in the first place and didn't want an in-house, so many didn't vote in the hopes that the in-house would fail and we would only have to wait one year for the next vote, vs. waiting possibly years to merge with ALPA or de-certify JBPA and then vote ALPA.

Throw in some fence sitters that will switch to yes when jetblue doesn't do what they said they would do this year, and we just might get it passed next year.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

In spite of what appears as a lopsided vote, 33%/67%, a union at Jetblue only needs an additional 350 pilots or so. That would give us the 50% + 1 we need.

There are quite a few pilots here who wanted ALPA in the first place and didn't want an in-house, so many didn't vote in the hopes that the in-house would fail and we would only have to wait one year for the next vote, vs. waiting possibly years to merge with ALPA or de-certify JBPA and then vote ALPA.

Throw in some fence sitters that will switch to yes when jetblue doesn't do what they said they would do this year, and we just might get it passed next year.

But will the 646 vote for ALPA? I voted for the JBPA, not just any union. Management would really have to drop the ball (again) for me to vote in ALPA.

 

[Max Powers]

But will the 646 vote for ALPA? I voted for the JBPA, not just any union. Management would really have to drop the ball (again) for me to vote in ALPA.

Let me guess you never worked under a union; let alone alpa. And you think: Karl Rove, Chenney and Bush are the best patriots in the world. I, UTA and fly with closed minded folks such as yourself who have never left their little glass bubble. Do me a favor and read a book other than a Limbaugh book.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

If this starts now it'll have about as munch success as JBPA. Those that are organizing this drive need to study the real reasons why JBPA failed. If the standard response is to assume that somehow 66% of the pilot group are Kool-ad drinkers or in managements hip pocket they are sorely mistaken, this simply isn't the case. Be better prepared in knowing what the pilot group as a whole wants and needs, disregard the 5 or 10% that represents the extremes of both sides. Talk to the hundreds of pilots that you'll find between either extreme, you might be surprised are what you find and hear.

JET41 has hit the nail on the head. First, JBPA failed because no goals were ever defined or achieved. Second, many of us were turned off by the rhetorical chest thumping by a few vociferous pilots who continue to rant today like little children. Finally, JBPA failed because it lost in a landslide 2-1 vote--not just 350 pilots short, but 2 out of 3 pilots said, "no thank you". A union drive in this next year is just plain S-T-U-P-I-D because you're unlikely to sway enough people when you've given the company no time to even address the issues at hand.

 

[thruthemurk]

.... Finally, JBPA failed because it lost in a landslide 2-1 vote--not just 350 pilots short, but 2 out of 3 pilots said, "no thank you". A union drive in this next year is just plain S-T-U-P-I-D because you're unlikely to sway enough people when you've given the company no time to even address the issues at hand.

Nice try. It is clear that JBPA lost the vote under the current scenario - but this scenario will quite possibly change. I concede that the JBPA lost - but if you believe that there were 67% of the pilots actively against the union you might want to reconsider your "analysis".

Voter turnout varies, but a 60% turnout is considered good in the mainstream political spectrum - where only those who vote count. Under current NMB rules, couch potatoes, apathetics and the clueless are all aligned with the no voters.

It is hard to know their exact percentage but based on standard union election voter turnout -there is at least a 35% no show factor. If these non-votes were excluded, as they will be under at least one pending bill, the JBPA would be your representative today.

 

[Fins Up]

I just read on another site that ALPA got a whopping 49 write-ins for the election. I realize some ALPA supporters will wait until they think there is more ALPA support before they vote. However, in my class of about 25 people, I was the only one trying to sway guys to vote for JBPA. There was only one other person who even agreed with me that I know of. I doubt my class is unique in its opinion. Ninety percent of the arguments again voting in any union was that they went down that road before and didn't feel they got squat for representation.

There are way to many USAir, TWA, other general ALPA haters at JetBlue for ALPA have a chance anytime in the near future, if ever at all.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Let me guess you never worked under a union; let alone alpa. And you think: Karl Rove, Chenney and Bush are the best patriots in the world. I, UTA and fly with closed minded folks such as yourself who have never left their little glass bubble. Do me a favor and read a book other than a Limbaugh book.

Excuse me? Please tell me where you get all of this from my post? Are you drinking before noon on a layover again?

As a matter of record, I have been in a union (non-aviation) and voted to strike once. As for my politics, I'm a Democrat. NOT THAT YOU NEEDED TO F-ING KNOW.

If you have something intelligent to say or ask, like "Chef, why are you not ready to vote for ALPA?" -- then by all means do it. Otherwise, put your cravat back on, polish up that man-pleaser of yours and get ready for your next "UTA".

 

[Bavarian Chef]

... but 2 out of 3 pilots said, "no thank you".

NO they absolutely did not. You have no way of knowing what those pilots did or didn't do. At a company where only 50% of the pilot group does the Speak Out Survey, and only 600 pilots vote in the PVC election (yep, I'm one of those too), all you can say about our pilot group (other than we have a lot of pilots that couldn't get hired at real airlines) is that they are apathetic and lazy.

I am already hearing stories about 190 FOs telling their CAs about how they didn't vote, but wish they had.

On another note -- JB hired two over 60 pilots in the latest 190 FO class that started on 18 Feb. One of those was K. Kelly (a retread). Ahhhh, JetBlue ... raising the bar once again. Age 60 and over -- cheap, dispensable labor.

 

[Lear70]

On another note -- JB hired two over 60 pilots in the latest 190 FO class that started on 18 Feb. One of those was K. Kelly (a retread). Ahhhh, JetBlue ... raising the bar once again. Age 60 and over -- cheap, dispensable labor.

I'll be surprised if more airlines don't do this next year if they hire, and one or two might (JB and AAI come to mind).

3 years is plenty of time to recoup training costs. 61-62 year old guys would not upgrade to Captain with current upgrade times anywhere, and instead of upgrading a 3 year guy, they upgrade a 2 year guy and replace the 3 year guy with a new-hire.

As far as ALPA at JB? I wouldn't bet on it. At least not right now... I still hold out hope that the JBPA is a wakeup call for JB management, but we'll see what the year brings.

 

[clickclickboom]

The biggest problem at Jetblue is that you have many captains here that look at their current situation and fear losing their current situation more than they fear the slow reduction in their pay and benefits due to lack of any defined COLA.

In 2003 they got theirs and have lost 15-18% since

Then you have " We were going to execute our compensation plan but we were punched in the teeth by this surprise filing and our hands are tied now " by top management.

Then following labratory conditions now nothing but silence followed by 2 yes 2 surveys which JB is oh so famous for.

Add in the 600 or so junior FO's here that everyday were preached to that they would be furloughed the second the union was voted in. ( Even though we may hire up to 100 this year with classes currently running)

There you have it the anatomy of a union defeat at jetblue.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

The biggest problem at Jetblue is that you have many captains here that look at their current situation and fear losing their current situation more than they fear the slow reduction in their pay and benefits due to lack of any defined COLA.

Bingo. Not just Captains though.

 

[PHXFLYR]

JET41 has hit the nail on the head. First, JBPA failed because no goals were ever defined or achieved. Second, many of us were turned off by the rhetorical chest thumping by a few vociferous pilots who continue to rant today like little children. Finally, JBPA failed because it lost in a landslide 2-1 vote--not just 350 pilots short, but 2 out of 3 pilots said, "no thank you". A union drive in this next year is just plain S-T-U-P-I-D because you're unlikely to sway enough people when you've given the company no time to even address the issues at hand.

Just wondering how long time-wise one should give the company to "address the issues at hand" before one says enough is enough ? Haven't you given them enough time already ??

PHXFLYR

 

[OurMoney1]

Is it true that Dave Barger built a LEANING TOWER OF EXPECTATIONS during the JBPA union movement?

I had a JBLU pilot in the JS last week going into SDF who believes the Barger brothers will make right where Neelman failed.

Is that the general sense or are pilots happy with where they sit in respect to their peers. It would seem that an ALPA movement would be succesful if leadership fails to follow through.

I must say the LEANING TOWER OF EXPECTATIONS did get a laugh from us...when it falls I hope you guys are brough back into reality.

 

[aewanabe]

I'm a 190 FO in the bottom 200 who voted for JBPA and has already sent my info to ALPA. I actually had a captain tell me we were flying an RJ and needed MY wages to be competitive with RJ operators, WHILE WE WERE FLYING JFK-SDQ WITH 98 FREAKIN PEOPLE WEIGHING 114K!! I asked him if he thought he was an RJ pilot when he was in the right seat of the bus flying JFK-BOS...

Pilots in general are short-sighted and selfish but we've got some extreme examples here... and hell no I'm not happy where we sit in respect to our peers/

 

[Fubijaakr]

Unfortunately, I believe there are enough B6 pilots with residual heartburn at ALPA that this election will fail worse than the JBPA election.

JBPA was the best hope for a union at B6 and I think we've all seen how the rank and file feels.

 

[Dizel8]

JBPA was the best hope for a union at B6 and I think we've all seen how the rank and file feels.

Well, 33% feels pretty bad about the outcome!

Time will tell what transpires, but the longer this drags on, positive changes that is, the better, since more will see it for the scam it really is.

Of course, never mind the fact, that certain issues simply cannot be resolved outside of a CBA.