Aloha and Island Air

[mdanno808]

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8613322/

So where is this going? What does Aloha's ALPA council plan on doing? It is amazing to me how screwed up the airline business is. A puchase which includes pay off's, a buyback clause, and shared resources with the seller, which now claims to be an autonomous entity. Good luck guys. I hope Farris makes the right decision, although in matters such as these he has a checkered past.

BTW, to any island air pilot's out there, when do the big planes start to arrive, and what is WP's council's position on the scope between Hawaiian and Aloha?

 

[Whale Rider]

How to cut your own throat

Aloha is suing its own pilots??? So how is that suppose to work??? Don't they have bigger fish to fry.......like CH11??? Whatever,

 

[av8tortype]

snipped from the article above:

[The highest hourly wage of an Aloha pilot on an interisland flight is $109.09, compared with $108 for Island Air pilots.

Island Air recently raised the wages of all its employees by about 30 percent while Aloha negotiated a wage cut of about 20 percent.]

So, which WP pilot is pulling in the $108/hour? Must include tips.

 

[islandhopper]

The truth be told, Aloha LOST the grievance and they are suing to increase the scope clause from to 120 flights a day, and they want to be able to code share on any size airplane, maybe even 737's...

This was their offer AFTER THEY LOST the grievance! Amazing. They must really take us for fools. Holy crap do I have a few questions for the hanger hui....

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8613322/

So where is this going? What does Aloha's ALPA council plan on doing? It is amazing to me how screwed up the airline business is. A puchase which includes pay off's, a buyback clause, and shared resources with the seller, which now claims to be an autonomous entity. Good luck guys. I hope Farris makes the right decision, although in matters such as these he has a checkered past.

BTW, to any island air pilot's out there, when do the big planes start to arrive, and what is WP's council's position on the scope between Hawaiian and Aloha?

 

[slatsnfive]

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8613322/

So where is this going? What does Aloha's ALPA council plan on doing? It is amazing to me how screwed up the airline business is. A puchase which includes pay off's, a buyback clause, and shared resources with the seller, which now claims to be an autonomous entity. Good luck guys. I hope Farris makes the right decision, although in matters such as these he has a checkered past.

BTW, to any island air pilot's out there, when do the big planes start to arrive, and what is WP's council's position on the scope between Hawaiian and Aloha?

The first one in November, 2nd in March and the third in June, supposedly.
Hope this helps, Take care my friend.

 

[nomomoney]

When did you hear 120 flights?????

 

[islandhopper]

When did you hear 120 flights?????

A friend of mine saw the written proposal.

 

[islandhopper]

snipped from the article above:

[The highest hourly wage of an Aloha pilot on an interisland flight is $109.09, compared with $108 for Island Air pilots.

Island Air recently raised the wages of all its employees by about 30 percent while Aloha negotiated a wage cut of about 20 percent.]

So, which WP pilot is pulling in the $108/hour? Must include tips.

I though those pay rates were typos but its actually accurate.

 

[mdanno808]

So, they lost the grievance, and want to impose a new, less restrictive scope on the pilots? WTF? Who hears this new proposal? Is it Farris, cause if it is, you guys may be in trouble. He is not the most labor friendly man in the world. Good luck either way.

 

[av8tortype]

I thought those pay rates were typos but its actually accurate.

I did read about an Island Air pilot retiring from WP a year or two ago. I guess reaching the top of the scale can be done. Anything new from FlyHI?

 

[mdanno808]

Just got back from a 3 day trip, and saw an article that claimed AQ is sending back 4 more planes next month. Is this right? Are they actually sending the planes back, or are they just cancelling four flights?

 

[English]

My understanding is that two already went back (in the last few weeks or so) and the other two are going back in September.

 

[Whale Rider]

Just got back from a 3 day trip, and saw an article that claimed AQ is sending back 4 more planes next month. Is this right? Are they actually sending the planes back, or are they just cancelling four flights?

http://starbulletin.com/2005/07/23/business/story2.html

 

[dash8driver]

My understanding is that two already went back (in the last few weeks or so) and the other two are going back in September.

you understand correctly...

now when is the margarita pool party?

 

[English]

NOW...you're missing it!

Mango and strawberry margaritas, with Herradurra Reposado.

Get over here!

 

[slatsnfive]

I did read about an Island Air pilot retiring from WP a year or two ago. I guess reaching the top of the scale can be done. Anything new from FlyHI?

Fly Hi supposedly will start arriving in December. They received 121 certification through some company called Empire I believe. At least this is what we were told.

 

[av8tortype]

Fly Hi supposedly will start arriving in December. They received 121 certification through some company called Empire I believe. At least this is what we were told.

Is that the motivation for WP getting the -400s this year? Wonder if any Island guys plan to jump ship. I'll pass the word if I see any lime green ATRs heading over the west coast for HNL. For some of these birds it just may be their second transpac to Hawaii.

 

[Erndogg]

Is that the motivation for WP getting the -400s this year? Wonder if any Island guys plan to jump ship. I'll pass the word if I see any lime green ATRs heading over the west coast for HNL. For some of these birds it just may be their second transpac to Hawaii.

This FlyHi operation is still in need of MAJOR FINANCING to the tune of 25-30 Mill the last I heard!!!!

It would be very risky for any WP guys to jump ship to a unknown startup with no financing and no A/c to speak of.

This guy whom is behind this startup (owner of Lion Coffee) should stick to making coffee and be very careful pouring his and investors $$$ (if he ever gets any??) into this venture!!!

The graveyard of interisland carriers is a long and very distiguished (Mid-Pac, Discovery, Mahalo and if they want FlyHi.)

 

[Whale Rider]

This FlyHi operation is still in need of MAJOR FINANCING to the tune of 25-30 Mill the last I heard!!!!

It would be very risky for any WP guys to jump ship to a unknown startup with no financing and no A/c to speak of.

This guy whom is behind this startup (owner of Lion Coffee) should stick to making coffee and be very careful pouring his and investors $$$ (if he ever gets any??) into this venture!!!

The graveyard of interisland carriers is a long and very distiguished (Mid-Pac, Discovery, Mahalo and if they want FlyHi.)

I must agree with Erndogg,

Start-ups are risky to begin with. However, in Hawaii, its even more so because it could mean you'll have to leave the islands to find work. Its a small community and you must be careful when burning bridges.

As for the Lion Coffee guy, he must be bored and looking for big challeges to want to brave todays airline industry. I wish FlyHI good luck.

 

[mdanno808]

I agree about WP guys jumping ship to Fly Hi. Bad idea. Then again, you never know. I knew a guy at National who left to be in the second class at Jet Blue, and everyone who knew him told him he was an idiot.

The problem if they do get financing is it will set Hawaiian, Aloha, and Island Air back for years. Look at the fare wars with Mahalo. Today, the coupons are gone, and the interisland market is finally a money maker. I know cheap fares are good for the passengers, but until interisland commuting is subsidised, it is still a business. But, what the hell do I care since I am flying in Scotland. Is flyhi hiring? Forgive the spelling, I've been at the pub.

 

[Whale Rider]

I agree about WP guys jumping ship to Fly Hi. Bad idea. Then again, you never know. I knew a guy at National who left to be in the second class at Jet Blue, and everyone who knew him told him he was an idiot.

The problem if they do get financing is it will set Hawaiian, Aloha, and Island Air back for years. Look at the fare wars with Mahalo. Today, the coupons are gone, and the interisland market is finally a money maker. I know cheap fares are good for the passengers, but until interisland commuting is subsidised, it is still a business. But, what the hell do I care since I am flying in Scotland. Is flyhi hiring? Forgive the spelling, I've been at the pub.

You are comparing FlyHI to Jetblue??? What makes you think that FlyHI is going to be that successful??? What makes you think things at FlyHI will be any better than things at Island Air??? It's the same flying in the same market. HELLO???

 

[av8tortype]

You are comparing FlyHI to Jetblue??? HELLO???

Actually, the way I understood it he was comparing flying in Scotland with living at the pub... not a bad deal in my book. Or maybe I just read it wrong.

 

[dash8driver]

You are comparing FlyHI to Jetblue???

i dont think it was a comparison. more of an analogy that sometimes what looks like a stupid move isnt.. ya never know.

in this industry, you will never know if a move you made was a good one until you retire.

 

[mdanno808]

My point was that you never know. Obviously an ATR outfit flying interisland in Hawaii is no Jet Blue (Hello, Roll eyes). I was making the point that those who leave Island Air for Fly HI (if any do) may be better off, or may be screwed in the long run. Who knows. The person I know at Jet Blue left National when National was doing fairly well. He left to go to a start up with a couple of 320's. At best it looked like a lateral move, and a risky one at that. Now he is a senior captain at a strong carrier, while National ended up tanking later.

 

[dash8driver]

My point was that you never know.

wwfs (what would forrest say):

airlines are like a box of chocolates....

 

[Whale Rider]

My point was that you never know. Obviously an ATR outfit flying interisland in Hawaii is no Jet Blue (Hello, Roll eyes). I was making the point that those who leave Island Air for Fly HI (if any do) may be better off, or may be screwed in the long run. Who knows. The person I know at Jet Blue left National when National was doing fairly well. He left to go to a start up with a couple of 320's. At best it looked like a lateral move, and a risky one at that. Now he is a senior captain at a strong carrier, while National ended up tanking later.

My point is no matter how successful FlyHI could be, its not going to be any better than Island Air. In this case, we already know this to be true. Just look at the history of failed commuters in Hawaii. If FlyHI is to even remotely be successful? It would have to put Aloha and Island Air out of business. This is why start-ups have failed repeatedly in Hawaii, by adding more airlines you are not making the market bigger, you're just dividing a very small pie amongst the appetite of football players. Sooner or later someone is going to starve to death and, in Hawaii, its usually the start-up. So the moral of the story here is; Anyone who leaves Island Air to go to FlyHI??? Is just leaving one job for the same job or worse. There won't be any "Jetblue" style step-up stories like your buddy.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

This sort of attitude is the best thing FLyhi could hope for. Especially if the WP management holds that sort of attitude.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

I'll be the designated driver....

NOW...you're missing it!

Mango and strawberry margaritas, with Herradurra Reposado.

Get over here!

...leader of the Good 'Ol Boys, driver of the Winnebago!

 

[dash8driver]

My point is no matter how successful FlyHI could be, its not going to be any better than Island Air. In this case, we already know this to be true. Just look at the history of failed commuters in Hawaii. If FlyHI is to even remotely be successful? It would have to put Aloha and Island Air out of business. This is why start-ups have failed repeatedly in Hawaii, by adding more airlines you are not making the market bigger, you're just dividing a very small pie amongst the appetite of football players. Sooner or later someone is going to starve to death and, in Hawaii, its usually the start-up. So the moral of the story here is; Anyone who leaves Island Air to go to FlyHI??? Is just leaving one job for the same job or worse. There won't be any "Jetblue" style step-up stories like your buddy.

so what you're saying is that jetblue and other start-ups made the markets bigger?

you are ignoring some big differences in the way things were when those others failed and the way things are today. back in the day, aq and hal could drive them out of the market because they had the money to do it. right now, i got more change in my sofa than aq has. i could fart and push it over the edge. and if aq goes out.. wp will probably be not far behind as the "sale" contract invovled an exchange of money, most of which hasnt occured. so i'm sure the judge will have something to say about getting that money out and back to the creditors.

now i'm not saying its going to be successful.. it just might tank.. no one knows. to sit here and claim that you can see the future is pretty ignorant. no one thought the big bad pan am would ever fail either. stranger things have happened.

it could be better over there, no one knows... maybe they wont hire a bunch of knucklhead to run it.. a guy with crappy seniority going over early on would definately fare better.. at least as long as it keeps going.

 

[mdanno808]

The other problem now, is that AQ and HAL have after years of BS made the interisland market a profitable one. Prices are finally where they need to be, no fare wars, and no coupons. Fly Hi will drop fares, and the rest will accordingly. This is what to the great fare wars with Mahalo, Discovery, etc. The problem now is the financial shape of the rest of the interisland carriers. How long can AQ sustain a fare war? WP may be the same job as Fly Hi, but a startup has never began operations with one carrier just out of Ch 11, another just in Ch 11, and the "subsidiary" (to be honest I'm confused about what official relationship WP and AQ have) is in limbo as to who the real owner is. In the past the start up has always gone under, but who will be the first to fold today? I hope it is the start up, but who knows. That was my point with the jet blue analogy: Those who leave WP may be sick in the long run, while those who don't may be kicking themselves later. Who knows?