Aloha Airlines files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy

[Bandit21]

so,
not to spread rumors,BUT...
heard today about Mesa(whoever owns them anyway) buying a chunk of Aloha. guess it happened yesterday??? wondering myself why that wasn't in the paper along with the HAL/AQ stuff.
Guess we will see monday, in the paper. glad i'm not the only one!

They may have put in an offer ( no idea just going along here ), but the Judge has to decide if it's allowed or not..Just remember ATA just a few weeks ago..

 

[Trash8Mofo]

Well, Maybe I am naive. But from that article, if anything, Banmiller is a far better communicator than that retard before him. At least it sounds like there is a plan; a plan that potentially involve 717, DC, Midway, cut routes that suck, add routes that work, red-eye, and etc. All the sheeeit that all of us were woundering YTF not all along. I could sleep better tonight, at least until Monday.

 

[Sleepyhead]

At least it sounds like there is a plan; a plan that potentially involve 717, DC, Midway, cut routes that suck, add routes that work, red-eye, and etc.

Funny how he tells the papers his plan, but when the MEC asks, the company has no details of the plan.
FYI: there will not be 717s, Boeing has decided to shut down production.

 

[Sleepyhead]

Ask WW. He told me the salaries will be just barely above Sun Country, as listed on airlinepilotpay.com. He told me this the day before the cancelled meeting. So, unless something changed, or he was lying to me (which I doubt), then I believe the salaries are going to put AQ just above Sun Country.

Well on airlinepilotpay.com at Sun Country a 5 yr CA makes $92/hr
If AQ rates go to something close to that, it would be a 40% pay cut
and the MEC will have a revolt on their hands.

 

[Nalo Boy]

FYI: there will not be 717s, Boeing has decided to shut down production.

yeah, but theres probably a handful shrinkwrapped in the desert, or Long Beach or somewhere.

(if they were selling like hotcakes, Boeing prob wouldnt stop making em)

Just a thought

 

[dash8driver]

I don't see how you can say AQs pay will be in the Sun Country range.
Using the numbers on airlinepilotpay and calculating for a 75 hr month , here is what you end up with.

..............AQ..... SC.... UAL
5 yr CA $9200 $6900 $ 9000
5 yr FO $5978 $4575 $ 5775

(the above rates assume UAL will take the 13.8% cut in their current TA and that the rumor of a 13% cut at AQ will take place)

I would say AQ is looking more like UAL than Sun Country.
and don't forget, Sun Country has no A or B plan.

for all you mathematicians out there, the AQ rates onairlinepilotpay.com does not reflect our 10% we are currently taking. the current 10% is taken off in your paycheck after you are paid atfull book rates, it didnt change the book rates. so, you'll have toapply a 23% cut to the rates you see on that website.

 

[Sleepyhead]

the AQ rates onairlinepilotpay.com does not reflect our 10% we are currently taking.

Well I didn't use the AQ rates on the airlinepilotpay.com site.
I don't know where he got them from.
Here is how I figure it.

134.68 (current hr rate from last paycheck)

103.70 (23% pay cut rate)
+ 9.71 (-700 compensation rate)
113.41 (-700 hr rate after a 23% cut)

8505 (75 hrs at new rate)
+578 (base pay for a 5yr CA)
9083 (monthly pay for 75 hrs)

This is not even close to Sun Country pay of $92/hr for 5 yr CA.
( SC 5 yr CA 92 x 75 = 6900)
Even if you look at -200 pay, AQ is still 11% higher than Sun Country

And if they use 2005 book rates, AQ will be about $3 higher/hr

QED

 

[Freight Dog]

Airlinepilotpay.com does reflect our pay cut... it's just computed differently given our "mystique" pay rules. Hourly captain pay is the same regardless of what year captain pay you make.. the difference is your base pay. As for the FO's the percentage changes every year plus your base pay. I believe that's how the FO numbers were derived..

If you multiply the hourly pay at airlinepilotpay.com hourly by 80 hours, you'll get the base+hourly gross pay you see on your paycheck after the 10%.

Also Sleepy... I believe the 2004 rate for -700 captains was $144.39/hr which is a book rate and not counting the base pay or the 10%.

 

[islandhopper]

so,
not to spread rumors,BUT...
heard today about Mesa(whoever owns them anyway) buying a chunk ofAloha. guess it happened yesterday??? wondering myself why that wasn'tin the paper along with the HAL/AQ stuff.
Guess we will see monday, in the paper. glad i'm not the only one!

In his wet dreams..

 

[dash8driver]

Airlinepilotpay.com does reflect our pay cut...

a-ha! i stand corrected....



CEVAPI!

 

[Freight Dog]

Cevapi!!!!!

 

[Sleepyhead]

Dog

you are right, the '04 rate for -700 is 144.39
that comes from the '04 rate of 134.68 + 9.71 (for -700)

I assume when they say a 13% pay cut, they mean from the book rate of134.68 and the -700 added compensation will not change. If they make it13% from the gross pay, then the numbers will be different. But ineither case it will not be at Sun Country levels.

 

[English]

Well, the numbers are out, and for some reason (exaggeration effects?) WW gave me, and everyone else in remote dispatch that day, bad scoop.

Looks like only a 10% pay cut.

 

[English]

Oh, and no more contraction, says PC.

Go figure.

 

[English]

LATEST NEWS
7:23 PM HST Monday
Aloha Air settles with pilots
Aloha Airlines and its 338 pilots have reached agreement on a new 28-month contract. It takes effect Feb. 1 and runs through Apr. 30, 2007.


"I applaud our pilot workforce for their willingness to work with the company to improve our competitive positioning during these challenging times for our industry," said Aloha CEO David Banmiller. "Their action exemplifies the can-do spirit that continues to prevail throughout this company's 58-year history."

The privately-held carrier and the Air Line Pilots Association Council 80 jointly announced the agreement Monday but said they had agreed not to release details of the tentative contract agreement at this time.

"The Aloha pilots have the best interests of Aloha and the people of Hawaii at heart," said ALPA Council 80 Master Executive Chairman David Bird.

The agreement came just a few weeks in Aloha's Chapter 11 bankruptcy, in sharp contract to Hawaiian Airlines, which has been in receivership for a year and is still negotiating terms with its own pilots, also members of ALPA. Hawaiian's situation is complicated by the pilots having already agreed to concessions a year ago, promised at the time that no further concessions would be sought.

"We're motivated to do our part in helping promote growth and profitability for our members and our company," said Richard Bockhaus, lead negotiator for the union side in the Aloha negotiations.

Like Hawaiian, and indeed like all mainland carriers, Aloha has reeled from soaring jet fuel prices. Banmiller, who has been CEO for only a short time, has sought to cut costs by pulling out of Pacific international markets, and this week announced plans to stop flying to Vancouver and Burbank in favor of adding service to San Diego and Orange County.

 

[islandhopper]

English, where did you get that press release?

LATEST NEWS
7:23 PM HST Monday
Aloha Air settles with pilots
AlohaAirlines and its 338 pilots have reached agreement on a new 28-monthcontract. It takes effect Feb. 1 and runs through Apr. 30, 2007.


"I applaud our pilot workforce for their willingness to work with thecompany to improve our competitive positioning during these challengingtimes for our industry," said Aloha CEO David Banmiller. "Their actionexemplifies the can-do spirit that continues to prevail throughout thiscompany's 58-year history."

The privately-held carrier and the Air Line Pilots Association Council80 jointly announced the agreement Monday but said they had agreed notto release details of the tentative contract agreement at this time.

"The Aloha pilots have the best interests of Aloha and the people ofHawaii at heart," said ALPA Council 80 Master Executive Chairman DavidBird.

The agreement came just a few weeks in Aloha's Chapter 11 bankruptcy,in sharp contract to Hawaiian Airlines, which has been in receivershipfor a year and is still negotiating terms with its own pilots, alsomembers of ALPA. Hawaiian's situation is complicated by the pilotshaving already agreed to concessions a year ago, promised at the timethat no further concessions would be sought.

"We're motivated to do our part in helping promote growth andprofitability for our members and our company," said Richard Bockhaus,lead negotiator for the union side in the Aloha negotiations.

Like Hawaiian, and indeed like all mainland carriers, Aloha has reeledfrom soaring jet fuel prices. Banmiller, who has been CEO for only ashort time, has sought to cut costs by pulling out of Pacificinternational markets, and this week announced plans to stop flying toVancouver and Burbank in favor of adding service to San Diego andOrange County.

 

[dash8driver]

Well, the numbers are out, and for some reason(exaggeration effects?) WW gave me, and everyone else in remotedispatch that day, bad scoop.

it was supposed to be higher.. but our negotiating team got it lowered thru superior firepower...

Looks like only a 10% pay cut.

only? how about sharing some of that money you're rolling around in...

 

[MiniMeGotWings]

a little late here, but i was the one who gave john the numbers for our pay and they do in fact include the 10% cut as freight dog mentioned. the new numbers should be out soon...

mm

 

[dash8driver]

a little late here, but i was the one who gavejohn the numbers for our pay and they do in fact include the 10% cut asfreight dog mentioned. the new numbers should be out soon...

mm

yes, you are late.. but you are excused as i have seen you working a lot lately.

 

[RJP]

The article was in the Pacific Biz Journal.

http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2005/01/24/daily17.html?jst=b_ln_hl

Curious how AQ worked it out with the pilot group in, what, two or three weeks since the Ch. 11? Seems a bit too quick and simple.

 

[Freight Dog]

The article was in the Pacific Biz Journal.

http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2005/01/24/daily17.html?jst=b_ln_hl

Curious how AQ worked it out with the pilot group in, what, two or three weeks since the Ch. 11? Seems a bit too quick and simple.

Actually, they've been negotiating for over a month. They came and presented us with the whole shopping list. That list was brutal... we made a counter-offer from which the company walked away which IMO was a worse deal for us than our current TA.

I'm glad we held out and didn't just fold and threw away our contract like the company wanted and wanted it immediately!

 

[Bandit21]

Oh, and no more contraction, says PC.

Go figure.

If you look at the flying for Feb, it's 11 700's flying....

The BUR and YVR cnx are replaced with SNA and SNA...So looks like April will also be 11 airplanes flying ( hence no replacement for South Pacific loss ), which should be an even trade.

So I figure unless the 200 shrinks, we currently have 13 pilots below " black line"
with current 200 flying and 11, 700's flying...

Supposedly 2 Captain are retiring early Mar 1, so unless OAK or LAS losses service, I would expect somewhere around 10-12 furloughs...

 

[Sleepyhead]

Oh, and no more contraction, says PC.

Umm, is that like when you get out of a cold pool....


One of my buds talked with a MEC member and he was told there will be furloughs.

 

[islandhopper]

Umm, is that like when you get out of a cold pool....


One of my buds talked with a MEC member and he was told there will be furloughs.

Thats what "Elimination of the 5% contingency from the staffing formula" sounds like to me.

 

[Bandit21]

The 5% contingency is not a manpower formula as I understand it...


It simply means a certain % of F/O's will be Captain qualified..That's it...

But it does allow company to have F/O's ready to go back and forth month to month.....But they also do 2 PC's a year, from what I have been told, hence extra training costs.

 

[English]

That's what I love about this company - the information changes from day to day, from person to person.

Today I heard 25 furloughs. Yesterday it was no furloughs.

Maybe I should just get a ouija board - at least those answers would be more consistent.

 

[English]

Today the wind is blowing to furloughs again.

Less than 25, and soon.

That means everyone on probation, as far as I can tell.

I know lots of us are taking LOAs and flex leaves, though. I expect that many pilots who receive the letter won't actually be furloughed. By the time they process all the LOAs and flex leaves, they'll have to rescind most if not all of the furlough notices to cover staffing.

I'm doing my part and taking a LOA.

 

[Cray Cray]

What are they taking LOAs for?

 

[dash8driver]

What are they taking LOAs for?

to help keep the junior people on the property. in the aloha culture,when there are furloughs, in order to "help a brotha out",people whohave other options to exercise will take flexbids or LOAs so thatpeople who may not have other options can stay on the payroll.

some people that are well off financially or have other jobs they canput more time into, take flexbids...this frees up flying to be given tothe would-be furloughed pilots

some people who have other jobs lined up, will take an LOA to gowork/fly at that other job. thus freeing up an entire slot for someonewho would be furloughed. a lot of guard guys will take an LOA and gofull time to help out.

me? i'm (for the moment) clear of the furlough steamroller, but i'mworking on my options so i can take an LOA to try to keep someone offthe street.

edit: to try to fix these spaces that are getting deleted.... wtf?!?

 

[Sleepyhead]

Heard this afternoon (Wed), PC said there would not be a lot of furloughs. There was a meeting about manpower today.