Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Aloha Airlines files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
"It served two purposes," Banmiller said of the loan, which was made after the bankruptcy filing. "The first is to show in fact investor interest and potentially not just (from) this group but other potential ... investors. And second allow us some flexibility and liquidity that shows people that we have the cash to continue to operate."

Is this put out there to solicit other investors?
 
Sleepyhead said:
Unfortunately there will be more Chapter 11s in '05. The only question is who is next.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I think all the legacy carriers will have to go through bankruptcy to restructure their costs in order to compete with the LCCs. It's a d@mned shame.

GV
 
Hung Wo and Sheridan dropped $3 mil. They're only $97 mil short of breaking even at this point.
 
Erndogg said:
Since the BK filing and the ouster of Adams we have had our best year ever in our history!!! ( 60-65 mill profit for 2004!!) The accounting types can't hide the real numbers now, since they are required to report every month to the court.
Click to expand...

Don't take this the wrong way, but I keep hearing about these record profits at Hawaiian. Isn't it easy to make a profit when you are getting huge breaks from your creditors and paying only pennies on the dollar on a certain unpaid tax bill? I know Hawaiian is doing a great job of filling airplanes but 65 million dollars in profit while in BK? Somehow I don't think we are seeing the whole balance sheet here.
 
Pull & Rotate said:
Don't take this the wrong way, but I keep hearing about these record profits at Hawaiian. Isn't it easy to make a profit when you are getting huge breaks from your creditors and paying only pennies on the dollar on a certain unpaid tax bill? I know Hawaiian is doing a great job of filling airplanes but 65 million dollars in profit while in BK? Somehow I don't think we are seeing the whole balance sheet here.
Click to expand...

The only reason Hawaiian was put into BK was because our former CEO/Owner screwed up by taking $$$ out of the company after the failed merger. (which would have benefitted all parties Aloha/Adams and Smith/Brennamen/etc....) Then he proceeded to ask Boeing to give us lease rates in line with United/ATA/Northwest (Hawaiian's real competition!!!)
After Adam's asked for too much-Boeing told him to go fly a kite!!! Faris removed Adams and appointed Gutbomb.
As for that inflated IRS claim that the local media hyped up-Half has already been settled ( will pay 10 mill of a 60 mill claim) and the only reason the claim was so high was because of a mgmt blunder on write offs (fuel excise for a flag carrier). (IRS claims are usually inflated anyways) and the rest will be a fraction of the 60 mill left!!
Hawaiian's BK will be one of the few BK's that pays all their creditors 100% (cash/stock)-but who are our ceditors??? Our new prospective owners Ranch capital whom have purchased Boeing/Ansetts claims- that's about it!!! (leases have been reniged)
With 120 mill in unrestricted cash as of Jan (must in Chap 11) everyone else can be paid off!!!!
The financials in a Chap 11 case are accurate (thank God!) and have to be reported on a monthly basis to judge Faris-I dont think our authur anderson accounting types can hide much!!!
We were just LUCKY to be able to fill planes after 9-11 and streamline our operation. Hopefully we will be out of BK this year.
 
Last edited:
For the record. Some people were running around saying HAL is only profitable because they are in BK. Not so.
They started becoming profitable when they finished the transition from an old fleet to a new one. This coincided with a large investment in technology (thanks to their president M. Dunkerly). These investments paid off in spades. The IT investment almost doubled the yield without increasing the cost of tickets to the pax. I was amazed when I saw what internet sales, yield management and no coupon sales did to our yield. Hawaiian has made huge strides operationally. We sucked back in the 1990's, it is a very well run airline now.

http://www.fool.com/News/mft/2005/mft05010314.htm?source=eptyholnk303100&logvisit=y&npu=y

Keep in mind that if BK meant not paying bills and turning an easy profit USAir and UAL would not be in the shape they are in.
I'm not trying to rub it in, but you guys (AQ) don't need to be making decisions based on false perceptions. I'm sorry to say your management did you no good by habitually talking stink about HAL rather than worrying about making AQ better.
 
Pull & Rotate said:
Don't take this the wrong way, but I keep hearing about these record profits at Hawaiian. Isn't it easy to make a profit when you are getting huge breaks from your creditors and paying only pennies on the dollar on a certain unpaid tax bill?
Click to expand...
According to the company, the profits are calculated as if we are paying all our bills. Originally at the pre-bankruptcy rate and than at the new rates as negotiations were completed with the creditors.
 
Anyone think it's weird that Banmiller hired Rudy Guiliani's advising firm to see us through this?
 
Well, first of the furloughs went out today at Aloha. The 10 guys in the November 1st class are gonna get paid until January 19th. Hope that "expansion" happens sooner rather than later.
 
Go easy on Whitey, he's a friend of mine...hey where'd you get that info? I haven't seen it anywhere as of yet...any more info than what you just posted?
 
Sorry to hear that they dropped the F-Bomb.

Hope that it's for a VERY short time.

Best of luck guys.
 
Well as long as WP doesnt have any new hire pilot classes things should remain fairly civil out here till they bring our crew back.

RJP said:
Sorry to hear that they dropped the F-Bomb.

Hope that it's for a VERY short time.

Best of luck guys.
Click to expand...
 
Sorry to hear it guys, 10 more of our brothers on the street, American is letting another 44 guys go also. Unbelievable state of our industry.
 
February bid packet does not show any new flying to replace the South Pacific stuff that is going away in the middle of January. What are they going to do that aircraft and when?? This would help out the overstaffing situation.
 
WHALE RIDER,

I saw your avatar and thought it likely you're a Polar guy. Any insight or experience with L. Steele & company? Perhaps something to say about Capt. Rand? We'd all be very curious to know.

Thanks!
 
Last edited:
Pull & Rotate said:
February bid packet does not show any new flying to replace the South Pacific stuff that is going away in the middle of January. What are they going to do that aircraft and when?? This would help out the overstaffing situation.
Click to expand...

One aircraft is scheduled to be in maint. until spring break. Full force during spring break and summer. Evidently, we are trying to do more in-house maint. during the slow season. Wow, that makes sense for a change!
 
Getter said:
WHALE RIDER,

I saw your avatar and thought it likely you're a Polar guy. Any insight or experience with L. Steele & company? Perhaps something to say about Capt. Rand? We'd all be very curious to know.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

No experience with either....yet. I'm always under the radar and out of the way.;)
 
Getter said:
One aircraft is scheduled to be in maint. until spring break. Full force during spring break and summer. Evidently, we are trying to do more in-house maint. during the slow season. Wow, that makes sense for a change!
Click to expand...

I suspect and I hope I'm wrong... but those guys will be out for a LONG time with more of us joining them at the beach... they want us to fly to the FAR's, combine -200 and -700 bases, give up our retirement, take further paycuts, and all sorts of other things that have no cost attached to them. I put my faith in our MEC... but I dont know how much they can do given the current conditions.


Sad... very sad..
 
This is either a great smoke and mirror show or we really are in a bad way. The fact that the owner's put in some $$ makes me feel a bit better...They aren't known for throwing good money after bad....
 
Read the bankruptcy papers...mention is made of possibly becoming an inter-island-only carrier again.

In fact, there are many clues and scenarios covered in those papers. Hope you guys have been reading them.
 
Getter said:
WHALE RIDER,

I saw your avatar and thought it likely you're a Polar guy. Any insight or experience with L. Steele & company? Perhaps something to say about Capt. Rand? We'd all be very curious to know.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

doh! you called him "captain". he likes it when you do that. it gives him the tingles down in his special place.
 
Read the bankruptcy papers...mention is made of possibly becoming an inter-island-only carrier again.
Click to expand...

that is a red-herring. If they do that, they might as well just shut down. They already gave a bunch of flying to WP and they have admitted that the yield in the inter-island market is very low. It also says in the BK papers that once they re-organize there are a number of market opportunities they can take advantage of.
Banmiller has said numerous times he wants to add some mainland destinations. He is going to use the old tactic of saying "we can't expand until you guys give some concessions". Also, Nutly has a background with those vacation package companies. You can bet when he gets some concessions you will see the new marketing plan.
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom