Almost/possible another Asiana type crash at SFO?

[Erlanger]

Incident: EVA B773 at San Francisco on Jul 23rd 2013, descended below safe height

By Simon Hradecky, created Thursday, Jul 25th 2013 18:05Z, last updated Thursday, Jul 25th 2013 18:05Z
An EVA Airways Boeing 777-300, registration B-16701 performing flight BR-28 from Taipei (Taiwan) to San Francisco,CA (USA), was on final approach to San Francisco's 28L being cleared to land when the aircraft descended to about 600 feet about 3.8nm before the runway threshold (about 600 feet below glidepath, remaining glidepath angle 1.5 degrees instead of 3 degrees), tower warned the aircraft "climb immediately, altitude alert, altimeter 29.97", the crew initiated a go-around and positioned for another approach, that concluded in a safe landing about 13 minutes later.

http://avherald.com/h?article=465e38db&opt=0

 

[labbats]

If we had to read about every go-around from an international crew on a visual approach it would take days.

 

[densoo]

If we had to read about every go-around from an international crew on a visual approach it would take days.

This was no routine go-around. They were at 600' when they should have been at 1200', low enough to trip an alert in external monitors. It's also a textbook setup for recent accidents in simply being way too low on approach.

 

[list2002]

SFO needs to pony up and buy a glide slope...

 

[gutshotdraw]

SFO needs to pony up and buy a glide slope...

Maybe some pilots need to sack up and look out the frappin window.

 

[DCAA320]

SFO needs to pony up and buy a glide slope...

People need to learn how to ********************ing fly!

 

[waveflyer]

FI needs a "like" function
Exactly gut and dca-

 

[Flyer1015]

To be fair, SFO does have glideslopes for both 28R/L but they are OTS for the RSA program.

 

[DCAA320]

To be fair, SFO does have glideslopes for both 28R/L but they are OTS for the RSA program.

You lost me Bro, fair about what? Put the runway in the box, 4 miles, 1200 feet, not rocket science.

 

[DCAA320]

If we had to read about every go-around from an international crew on a visual approach it would take days.

Do they plan 1 or 2 GAs into their fuel load?

 

[FLYLOW22]

FAA, Transport Canada and EU need to bar Asian carriers with defective training from flying to their respective countries.

One more crash will do it. One more.

US Carriers will scramble to fill the capacity to the United States alone...

 

[B6Busdriver]

Personally I enjoy flying in and out of SFO. That said flying approaches at glide angles similar to the space shuttle is bound to have consequences. It's time to tell the hippies to bite it and enjoy the sweet sound of a turbojet engine.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Personally I enjoy flying in and out of SFO. That said flying approaches at glide angles similar to the space shuttle is bound to have consequences. It's time to tell the hippies to bite it and enjoy the sweet sound of a turbojet engine.

When you do that, please also tell the rich folks south of SNA the same thing. That marginally-safe, max power then cutback departure procedure out of there is bound to bite somebody in the rear one of these days (although it IS a cool ride in the back when you're very light).

Hey, where's PCL when you need him? DAMN those rich people!

Bubba

 

[B6Busdriver]

When you do that, please also tell the rich folks south of SNA the same thing. That marginally-safe, max power then cutback departure procedure out of there is bound to bite somebody in the rear one of these days (although it IS a cool ride in the back when you're very light).

Hey, where's PCL when you need him? DAMN those rich people!

Bubba

Agreed. Big fun trying to go to the east coast with a full A319 out of there.

 

[Flyer1015]

You lost me Bro, fair about what? Put the runway in the box, 4 miles, 1200 feet, not rocket science.

Taxiing out to 1R one night, tower gave a low altitude alert to a Delta aircraft over the bridge that then went around. Apparently over the bridge VERY low. So no, this Eva isn't a lone case and yes it has happened to an American crew.

 

[jmreii]

FAA, Transport Canada and EU need to bar Asian carriers with defective training from flying to their respective countries.

One more crash will do it. One more.

US Carriers will scramble to fill the capacity to the United States alone...

Expect those countries to bar US carriers from their airspace as well especially after some of the mistakes US pilots are making!

 

[DCAA320]

Taxiing out to 1R one night, tower gave a low altitude alert to a Delta aircraft over the bridge that then went around. Apparently over the bridge VERY low. So no, this Eva isn't a lone case and yes it has happened to an American crew.

Very true.

My 300 nighttime River Visual approaches into DCA in the DC-9 has spoiled me.

 

[waveflyer]

Agreed. Big fun trying to go to the east coast with a full A319 out of there.

Seriously?
SNA is fun man- please give me something different - and remember RJ FOs do that procedure every day- but at sea it's "capt only" like we have a bunch of rookies to the right
How on earth do we justify our pay when we complain about this kind of stuff?
Nothing remotely dangerous and we all make good coin out of there-
We need to be valuable and not scared of our own shadows too you know-

It speaks of complacency- no we ought not make every flight routine- the problem isn't that certain places pose different challenges- the problem is when we get into the mentality that each leg doesn't deserve our attention and skill-

 

[airplane wizard]

So, Capt Som Ting Wong flies for EVA now?

He got another job quick.

 

[Golden Falcon]

Even if one is unable to interpret visual cues, it's very simple to check the distance from the RWY threshold in the MCDU (forget the Boeing nomenclature) and create in your mind a 3degree path from say a 5 mile final and use V/S mode to maintain it...and the added benefit is in 'Bus and Boeing aircraft, the A/T is actively maintaining speed in vertical speed mode...very simple... no PAPI needed...or just fly the GNSS approach and be done with it if you've been up all night and are a bit fatigued..

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

You lost me Bro, fair about what? Put the runway in the box, 4 miles, 1200 feet, not rocket science.

This.

Why is this so hard all of the sudden?

And if these guys don't know an approximate descent rate that will maintain a 3 degree glide slope for a given ground speed, and have the proper attitude instrument skills to hold that rate without the use of a flight director/auto pilot/auto throttles, then it's either time to go back to flight training 101 or find another profession.

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

You lost me Bro, fair about what? Put the runway in the box, 4 miles, 1200 feet, not rocket science.

This.

Why is this so hard all of the sudden?

And if these guys don't know an approximate descent rate that will maintain a 3 degree glide slope for a given ground speed, and have the proper attitude instrument skills to hold that rate without the use of a flight director/auto pilot/auto throttles, then it's either time to go back to flight training 101 or find another profession.

 

[waveflyer]

Deserves to be said twice ^^^

 

[Varmint]

Taxiing out to 1R one night, tower gave a low altitude alert to a Delta aircraft over the bridge that then went around. Apparently over the bridge VERY low. So no, this Eva isn't a lone case and yes it has happened to an American crew.

No way? The way the other guys are talking, US carriers never have accidents.

 

[Varmint]

This.

Why is this so hard all of the sudden?

And if these guys don't know an approximate descent rate that will maintain a 3 degree glide slope for a given ground speed, and have the proper attitude instrument skills to hold that rate without the use of a flight director/auto pilot/auto throttles, then it's either time to go back to flight training 101 or find another profession.

Same could be said for the multitude of accidents we have seen in the US where the aircraft was high and over ran the runway.......or landed on a taxiway rather than the runway. Nobody is immune in this industry.

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

Same could be said for the multitude of accidents we have seen in the US where the aircraft was high and over ran the runway.......or landed on a taxiway rather than the runway. Nobody is immune in this industry.

That's true regardless of how skilled the pilot is and I would agree.

All the more reason to avoid degradation of skills and complacency, which it seems is something that this industry constantly struggles with.

 

[atpcliff]

You lost me Bro, fair about what? Put the runway in the box, 4 miles, 1200 feet, not rocket science.

U can't do that for the 28 runways at SFO. The thresholds have been displaced, so the boxes don't have the correct runway information in them. The databases (and probably the Jepps printed pages) haven't been updated yet with the new Rwy28 info.

 

[DCAA320]

U can't do that for the 28 runways at SFO. The thresholds have been displaced, so the boxes don't have the correct runway information in them. The databases (and probably the Jepps printed pages) haven't been updated yet with the new Rwy28 info.

I wasn't suggesting you could build a CAT III. How much is it displaced? They surely would be in the ball park. They also could have used the VOR, just subtract a mile.

These are just swags to get you in position.

 

[scoreboardII]

FAA, Transport Canada and EU need to bar Asian carriers with defective training from flying to their respective countries.

One more crash will do it. One more.

US Carriers will scramble to fill the capacity to the United States alone...

I agree, problem is, within 24hrs those countries will reciprocate and bar our pilots from their country.

Then his holiness Obama will step in and enter high level talks with those countries, detailing how it was not fair that those countries have not had a fair chance to be good pilots. He will detail how it's our pilots fault for this incident and US pilots obviously need to pay more of our fair share to train these disadvantaged foreign pilots.

 

[Wolf King]

I agree, problem is, within 24hrs those countries will reciprocate and bar our pilots from their country.

Then his holiness Obama will step in and enter high level talks with those countries, detailing how it was not fair that those countries have not had a fair chance to be good pilots. He will detail how it's our pilots fault for this incident and US pilots obviously need to pay more of our fair share to train these disadvantaged foreign pilots.

Agreed. What an effed up country this has become....