Allegiant 4Q results in 23.4% operating margin and $25 million share buyback

[Mr Wu]

Every pilot needs a union, no matter how new their company is.

Why?

And please give me something other than the rhetoric that ALPA spews. I can read that on their website.

 

[Mr Wu]

It gets pretty dang bad after first year, though.

You have Pinnacle in your screen name and you were obviously involved with ALPA in the years that you were there. What the f**k did you and ALPA do for their payscale compared to the other regionals?

 

[Ameriagle]

Actually, my message was a warning. My "sounds like JB in 2002" was a response to "we'll unionize when we need to". Obviously the JB union drive failed, and that *is* the warning. 67% of JB pilots either don't want to unionize or don't care, this in spite of not receiving meaningful pay, benefits and/or QOL improvements in years, "targeted" "raises" notwithstanding. Management is very, very good at seeming to look out for your interests without ever coughing up the $$$ required to make it happen. Don't think that just since you're happy now that you will remain so. Don't think also that you'll be able to do anything about it when the good feeling's gone but everyone around you is still making excuses for management's lack of meaningful action. The deck is very much stacked against you.

You make some valid points and you may be right. Time will tell. If at some time in the future there is a union drive at Allegiant, I hope there will only be one, that is the point I was trying to make! Any other result does nothing to support our cause, IMO!

 

[BRA]

Do you not find it pathetic that even after 40% raises you still make a fraction of what everyone else makes? That really says something for how horrible your payrates were before.


Didn't Allegiant start with an old short DC-9 out of fresno, no hope, and on the edge of bankruptcy until it went into bankruptcy? I think it then attempted to remake itself into what it is today right after 9/11. Shortly after that the Iraq war started in 2003.

 

[PCL_128]

Why?

And please give me something other than the rhetoric that ALPA spews. I can read that on their website.

Career protection. Anyone can slide off of a runway in the middle of winter. If it happens to you, wouldn't it be nice to know that a union is there to provide you attorneys, accident investigators, etc...? Take a look at the comments from Captain Sullenburger and FO Skiles about the support they received not only from their own union, but also from the other unions that they work with in CAPA.

What happens if you lose your medical? Wouldn't it be nice to know that your union has an aeromedical department that can get you your medical back in short order?

How 'bout discipline? Everyone gets in trouble at one point or another. You need an advocate for yourself instead of just hoping that the manager is going to be fair.

Unions aren't just about collective bargaining. In fact, that's just a small part of it.

 

[BEECH-SLAPPED]

It gets pretty dang bad after first year, though.

If memory serves, it got "pretty dang bad" for a bunch of your FO's late last year as well. They didn't seem to have a problem beating on our door for a job. I am happy that they were all recalled, though.

You know, about a decade ago I also got a BE1900 job. But I got this job on my own merit and for the first year, cleared a whopping $280 per week. Why was the pay so low? Because certain people down in FL were paying the company for the privilage of doing the exact same job.

So, you regret "renting" a BE1900 and then becoming "meat in the seat" for some poor unsuspecting Pinnacle CRJ captain? Well, good for you for admitting your mistake. But that doesn't necessarily qualify you to become ALPA's door-to-door salesman.

Nobody at Allegiant defends the pay. We know it's bad but it improves steadily every year. And if you're wondering what's taking us so long, please learn the history of the company that you fly for. Whether you want to admit it or not, your company and ours were founded and run by the same people. These people know how to make money, but they don't give the farm away either. Since you've been stalled for years, maybe you can appreciate what we're up against. Having a union in place, from my observation, would only drag everything out further.

 

[PCL_128]

You have Pinnacle in your screen name and you were obviously involved with ALPA in the years that you were there. What the f**k did you and ALPA do for their payscale compared to the other regionals?

I think you'll find that PCL's payscales improve a hell of a lot when they sign a new contract, probably within the year. When their current contract was signed in '99, their payrates were right in line with everyone else's. By comparison, look at the crap rates that Pinnacle management pays to the Colgan pilots. Far below industry standard. That's exactly what the PCL pilots would get if it weren't for ALPA. Now that the Colgan guys just voted in ALPA, they'll be able to bargain for improvements; something they haven't been able to ever do in the past.

 

[PCL_128]

But that doesn't necessarily qualify you to become ALPA's door-to-door salesman.

No, years of union work has qualified me for that. But to be clear, I'm not selling ALPA to you, I'm selling trade unionism. If you want to go independent first, then I'll support it 100%. I just want you to have something.

Since you've been stalled for years, maybe you can appreciate what we're up against.

I can definitely appreciate what you're up against, but you're not doing anything about it. Without a union in place, you have no true voice. A company committee is not a true voice. Only legally recognized collective bargaining will truly provide you with a voice.

 

[chperplt]

Career protection. Anyone can slide off of a runway in the middle of winter. If it happens to you, wouldn't it be nice to know that a union is there to provide you attorneys, accident investigators, etc...? Take a look at the comments from Captain Sullenburger and FO Skiles about the support they received not only from their own union, but also from the other unions that they work with in CAPA.

What happens if you lose your medical? Wouldn't it be nice to know that your union has an aeromedical department that can get you your medical back in short order?

How 'bout discipline? Everyone gets in trouble at one point or another. You need an advocate for yourself instead of just hoping that the manager is going to be fair.

Unions aren't just about collective bargaining. In fact, that's just a small part of it.

There is no better financial protection offered to a pilot group than what Allegiant offers its pilots...for free. Without going into detail, we've had pilots lose their medical, spend over a year on medical leave, not be able to fly ever again, and the company continues to pay them. We even had a guy get into a plane crash during ground school, and the company continued to pay him until he got his medical back.

Discipline... You really have to try to get fired here. Hell, you have to ask to get fired here... Our CP and DO have a loyalty to their pilots that even baffles me at times.

You may think unions are necessary, but there are many here that don't. At some point we may elect as a group to go that route, but we'll be losing just as much as we gain (if not more) when we do.

There's a lot more to a company than just it's basic pay rate. Our pay and work rules WILL get better as time goes on. Will your union ever get you the benefits we already have... for free??

 

[PCL_128]

There is no better financial protection offered to a pilot group than what Allegiant offers its pilots...for free. Without going into detail, we've had pilots lose their medical, spend over a year on medical leave, not be able to fly ever again, and the company continues to pay them. We even had a guy get into a plane crash during ground school, and the company continued to pay him until he got his medical back.

Sounds great, but it can be taken away at any time. Wouldn't you like to codify it in contract language?

Discipline... You really have to try to get fired here. Hell, you have to ask to get fired here... Our CP and DO have a loyalty to their pilots that even baffles me at times.

Again, something that can change at any time. Sure would be nice to have protection in place before you need it.

Will your union ever get you the benefits we already have... for free??

I would take my union protection over what you've got any day.

 

[Thug Life]

I am worried about my pilot group. We're trying to negotiate pay raises while you guys who fly similar equipment are doing it for far less than our 8-year old contract rates. We're trying to get our FOs up to respectable rates, but your FOs top out at a rate that is less than our 3rd year rate. We're trying to bring our Captains up to something close SWA rates, while you top out at barely more than half that. You don't exist in a vacuum. Your rates affect everyone else.

You should just shut your suck hole. You are a pay for training scum bag. Talk about dragging down the industry. You lead the way!!!!!!!!!!

 

[chperplt]

Sounds great, but it can be taken away at any time. Wouldn't you like to codify it in contract language?



Again, something that can change at any time. Sure would be nice to have protection in place before you need it.



I would take my union protection over what you've got any day.

Your union contract isn't worth the paper it's written on... How many grievances does your union presently have, and what's the average time for resolution? Once resolved, how quickly before another grievance is filed over the newly resolved grievance?

 

[Hovernut]

First, FDX is ALPA.

Isn't it more like you can be ALPA at FDX if you want to? I thought half of their pilot group was independent.

 

[PCL_128]

Your union contract isn't worth the paper it's written on...

That's news to me. There are certainly some issues that we have interpretation differences on, but the contract is pretty much adhered to as long as the pilot knows his contract and challenges scheduling when they try to violate it.

How many grievances does your union presently have, and what's the average time for resolution?

We have 70 grievances waiting for arbitration, but that's largely because we've had internal union issues over the past 18 months with recalls of the union leadership and such. System boards and arbitrations are moving forward now to clean out the backlog. I would estimate that the average time for resolution would be 12 months.

Once resolved, how quickly before another grievance is filed over the newly resolved grievance?

Usually not an issue.

 

[PCL_128]

Isn't it more like you can be ALPA at FDX if you want to? I thought half of their pilot group was independent.

No, FDX is an agency shop. You either join and pay dues or pay maintenance fees anyway. They used to have an independent union called the FPA, but they got rid of it and joined ALPA.