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allegheny/piedmont
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I just interviewed with both of them in the last 3 weeks. I was much more impressed by piedmont, benifits seemed better, albeit not too much difference between the two. piedmont has a slightly larger fleet with 3 different models of Dash-8's (100,200,&300; They don't have any 400's like there website says, at least no one mentioned them at the interview) and I'm pretty sure they mentioned they were still taking deliveries of more 300's till the summer. I'd lean towards piedmont over allegheny, but both are good companies.
dondk
Don't you wish
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Worked for PDT and I interviewed with ALO. I know a bit about both.
Both are good companies, PDT does have more aircraft and a somewhat varied fleet. They are still getting 300's and will probably never get 400's ( can you say scope clause and Airways is too cheap!).
PDT is from Canada to Florida (and Nassau) and basically a East coast operation.
ALO is also supposed to get more 100's as I have heard. They are basically a north east and some Mid Atlantic operation.
Pay between the 2 is basically the same, contracts are very similar. Both have good contracts with very few differences.
Domiciles are the big difference, most of ALO's are in PA or NY. PDT is in VA, MD, FL.
Senority...both have around the same amount of pilots (give or take), PDT has about 25% lifer's (15 years +). ALO I think is a little higher in lifer's (30%).
Upgrade is about the same at 2 1/2 years.
Growth... I think both will continue to grow. As Airways furloughs and closes routes these wholly owneds will be picking up the slack. Airways finally is taking care of it's wholly owneds more than the contract carriers. All three are getting aircraft and all three are growing, albeit at the expense of mainline but it is good for the wholly owneds!
I think you cannot go wrong with either company. I am not going to recommend one over the other, it will have to be you choice of domiciles and the slight difference in equipment.
Good luck!
Both are good companies, PDT does have more aircraft and a somewhat varied fleet. They are still getting 300's and will probably never get 400's ( can you say scope clause and Airways is too cheap!).
PDT is from Canada to Florida (and Nassau) and basically a East coast operation.
ALO is also supposed to get more 100's as I have heard. They are basically a north east and some Mid Atlantic operation.
Pay between the 2 is basically the same, contracts are very similar. Both have good contracts with very few differences.
Domiciles are the big difference, most of ALO's are in PA or NY. PDT is in VA, MD, FL.
Senority...both have around the same amount of pilots (give or take), PDT has about 25% lifer's (15 years +). ALO I think is a little higher in lifer's (30%).
Upgrade is about the same at 2 1/2 years.
Growth... I think both will continue to grow. As Airways furloughs and closes routes these wholly owneds will be picking up the slack. Airways finally is taking care of it's wholly owneds more than the contract carriers. All three are getting aircraft and all three are growing, albeit at the expense of mainline but it is good for the wholly owneds!
I think you cannot go wrong with either company. I am not going to recommend one over the other, it will have to be you choice of domiciles and the slight difference in equipment.
Good luck!
Humblepilot
Well-known member
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- Nov 29, 2001
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- 200
Does anyone know if Allegheny or Piedmont require a college degree? I have all the flight time and ratings plus some but have not finished my degree. I am 36 yrs old, so the possibility of staying with a regional/commuter for the long haul is a real possibility at this point in the game for me. Thanks
DASHDRIVER
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Recent req
Piedmont has lately been offering jobs to furloughed pilots with a two year contract. For some this will work like US Airways mainline. Others maybe not such a good idea. We have also taken up some of the other wholly owned furloughed pilots. Bob Trout, Corperate recruiter does prefer college degrees. However it is not unheard of to slip through with the good experiance. We will be swelling our fleet to a total of 72 dash's 200's/300's by the end of the year. present hiring goals sit at 40 upgrades by april. 75 new FO's by april and as needed after that. The training department is in turbo mode taking sim slots from Horizen in washigton and the Bom sims in Toronto to take up slack in the juiced up flow. Things are looking good here right now. RJ discussions are happening again although I have a feeling that Mesa will be getting all the new jets and not us, or any other wholly owned for that matter. But the flying has touched a new high in the company and there is no sign of it slowing down in the near future. Good luck to all
Piedmont has lately been offering jobs to furloughed pilots with a two year contract. For some this will work like US Airways mainline. Others maybe not such a good idea. We have also taken up some of the other wholly owned furloughed pilots. Bob Trout, Corperate recruiter does prefer college degrees. However it is not unheard of to slip through with the good experiance. We will be swelling our fleet to a total of 72 dash's 200's/300's by the end of the year. present hiring goals sit at 40 upgrades by april. 75 new FO's by april and as needed after that. The training department is in turbo mode taking sim slots from Horizen in washigton and the Bom sims in Toronto to take up slack in the juiced up flow. Things are looking good here right now. RJ discussions are happening again although I have a feeling that Mesa will be getting all the new jets and not us, or any other wholly owned for that matter. But the flying has touched a new high in the company and there is no sign of it slowing down in the near future. Good luck to all
scouts out!
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- 38
Allegheny will not require anyone to resign their seniority number. There is no training contract either. (First I've heard about PDT having a training contract - that kinda sucks) Like PDT, ALG is in a growth mode. We are one aircraft short of our pre 9-11 level and will be over 50 aircraft by April. It appears we are starting two classes a month at least for the short term. We are also using the sim in SEA concurrently with using the regular sims in CLT and ATL.
In regards to my previous post in this thread.
I got's me a job offa from Allegheny with ain't no colage.
I was simply answering the question previously asked in a humorous manner. Some guy thought I was taking a shot at pilots without degrees. I really dont have a degree, and Allegheny, like most Regionals do not require it. I apologize if this person could not see the humor in my response. His reply is no longer on this site as it was completely inappropriate and I assume removed.
Most airlines however, do require that thier pilots not go off in fits of rage at the drop of a hat. May I suggest some anger managment classes
I got's me a job offa from Allegheny with ain't no colage.
I was simply answering the question previously asked in a humorous manner. Some guy thought I was taking a shot at pilots without degrees. I really dont have a degree, and Allegheny, like most Regionals do not require it. I apologize if this person could not see the humor in my response. His reply is no longer on this site as it was completely inappropriate and I assume removed.
Most airlines however, do require that thier pilots not go off in fits of rage at the drop of a hat. May I suggest some anger managment classes
DASHDRIVER
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ALG Furlogh's
I had heard that ALG still had furloughs out is that true or have they all been recalled? In referance to the earlier discussed training contract that is only for the people that won't resign their senority numbers. The rest of the straight new hires will not have that requirement. Attached is a short memo released to day relating to this month's avtivity.
(*My Additions*)
*Total newhires in class now is 25
*Total upgrades in class now is 10
*Simulater training will be done in CLT, ATL, and SEA
*Next month there will be 25 newhires
*There are 50 anticipated upgrades in the next 5 months.
*ROA will be built up to approx. 45 crewmembers per seat
(*A New Crew Base Onening in Feb*)
*Right now we have 56 planes on line
*By March we should anticipate 64 total planes on line.
*One -200 will be added and the rest should be -300s
*ORF will be built back up after February
(*Some Lines Are Being Temp Given To ROA To Get It Started*)
*With the ROA maintenance base open, we can handle the maintenance of 72
planes
I had heard that ALG still had furloughs out is that true or have they all been recalled? In referance to the earlier discussed training contract that is only for the people that won't resign their senority numbers. The rest of the straight new hires will not have that requirement. Attached is a short memo released to day relating to this month's avtivity.
(*My Additions*)
*Total newhires in class now is 25
*Total upgrades in class now is 10
*Simulater training will be done in CLT, ATL, and SEA
*Next month there will be 25 newhires
*There are 50 anticipated upgrades in the next 5 months.
*ROA will be built up to approx. 45 crewmembers per seat
(*A New Crew Base Onening in Feb*)
*Right now we have 56 planes on line
*By March we should anticipate 64 total planes on line.
*One -200 will be added and the rest should be -300s
*ORF will be built back up after February
(*Some Lines Are Being Temp Given To ROA To Get It Started*)
*With the ROA maintenance base open, we can handle the maintenance of 72
planes
DASHDRIVER
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- 265
I believe that all of ALG furloughees have been called back. In fact, there is a new hire class going through now and in a few weeks, a class of ex-ALG pilots will be brought back.
Wish that the airlines requiring you to resign your seniority number would give you the option to do so OR sign a training contract. Vanguard, from what I've reaad, makes you do both. Talk about taking another punch below the belt. Guess the airlines can pretty much do what they want.
pappy
my wife wants to know when I'm going to get another job
Wish that the airlines requiring you to resign your seniority number would give you the option to do so OR sign a training contract. Vanguard, from what I've reaad, makes you do both. Talk about taking another punch below the belt. Guess the airlines can pretty much do what they want.
pappy
my wife wants to know when I'm going to get another job
Indeed all pilots at ALG have been recalled. In fact there have been THREE classes since, with a fourth class starting next week. When this fourth class arrives, we will have over thirty pilots in some phase of training. We have already had at least three ex-ALG furloughed mainline pilots come through training this past week. They still have their mainline number intact. I'm sure there are more coming.
PDT or ALG
Whatever you do, if you get hired and go to ALG stay away from ABE, it's A__hole central.
If your lucky enough to get hired by both and have a choice then here is my 2 cents. Go to PDT.
They both have the same contract (as said above) with minor diffs. but for the most part the same. Both pay and benni from day one and put you up for training. (which is way better that the pay for your job commuters and majors out there - yes I said majors Jet Boy)
You will make 33 to 36 (including Per diem) first year. I have almost 3 at ALG and made 43714 as an FO last year and it would have been more if not for the dune coons back in sept.
PDT has a few more aircraft and the 200's are a blast to fly (so I've been told). They also fly the islands. You should go there just for that. Their bases are better too. I'd take SBY, ORF/PHF, ROA, TPA, EWN, JAX any day over ABE (see first line), MDT, SCE, BGM, or SYR.
ALG like PDT is very senior. Guys with 30 25 20 and 15 years here. The top 150 out of 440 have been here 15 or more.
I've never run into an A__hole PDT capt. (but I bet they have a few) however Allegheny has them in spades. Dont get me wrong I can get along with them but It doesn't make the 4 day fun.
A final note: FA's. It seems that ALG hires 40 something, divorced 2 plus times, smoking 2.5 packs-a-day, cursing like a sailor women that hate men and life. PDT FA's on the other hand are alway nice, blonde, hot, and happy. It seems that whenever we get a hottie here at ALG she leaves for PDT anyway. (M. V. please come back, I (we) miss you chickie. I can show you my fish tank -wink,wink)
Just My 2 cents. If anyone wants any more info let me know.
P.S.
Please don't get me wrong, I LUV my job and like ALG (you just need a good attitude here). I'm happy to still be employed and feel for every pilot on the street.
Take Care
Whatever you do, if you get hired and go to ALG stay away from ABE, it's A__hole central.
If your lucky enough to get hired by both and have a choice then here is my 2 cents. Go to PDT.
They both have the same contract (as said above) with minor diffs. but for the most part the same. Both pay and benni from day one and put you up for training. (which is way better that the pay for your job commuters and majors out there - yes I said majors Jet Boy)
You will make 33 to 36 (including Per diem) first year. I have almost 3 at ALG and made 43714 as an FO last year and it would have been more if not for the dune coons back in sept.
PDT has a few more aircraft and the 200's are a blast to fly (so I've been told). They also fly the islands. You should go there just for that. Their bases are better too. I'd take SBY, ORF/PHF, ROA, TPA, EWN, JAX any day over ABE (see first line), MDT, SCE, BGM, or SYR.
ALG like PDT is very senior. Guys with 30 25 20 and 15 years here. The top 150 out of 440 have been here 15 or more.
I've never run into an A__hole PDT capt. (but I bet they have a few) however Allegheny has them in spades. Dont get me wrong I can get along with them but It doesn't make the 4 day fun.
A final note: FA's. It seems that ALG hires 40 something, divorced 2 plus times, smoking 2.5 packs-a-day, cursing like a sailor women that hate men and life. PDT FA's on the other hand are alway nice, blonde, hot, and happy. It seems that whenever we get a hottie here at ALG she leaves for PDT anyway. (M. V. please come back, I (we) miss you chickie. I can show you my fish tank -wink,wink)
Just My 2 cents. If anyone wants any more info let me know.
P.S.
Please don't get me wrong, I LUV my job and like ALG (you just need a good attitude here). I'm happy to still be employed and feel for every pilot on the street.
Take Care
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Alleghney Base/Reserve Time
Great info. Flyin@500agl...
What's a good pilot base at Allegheny, with short reserve time if possible, and what's the average reserve time anyway. I understand they are growing and upgrades are in progress.
Just asking... due to up coming interview and application ask for Location Desired... Thanks...
Great info. Flyin@500agl...
What's a good pilot base at Allegheny, with short reserve time if possible, and what's the average reserve time anyway. I understand they are growing and upgrades are in progress.
Just asking... due to up coming interview and application ask for Location Desired... Thanks...
LR25
Its just a vintage VW
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- 1,641
PDT
We have some pretty cool people to fly with at Piedmont. The domiciles seem to be better than ALG and the places we fly will get you alot of different scenery.
And the "lifers" that where mentioned before are cool people too, I havn'e seen many bad attitudes as far as who your flying with on a trip.
And we have the 3 types of Dash's WITH APU's I might add not that its a big deal or anything, just makes it nice.
I might be a little biased but, I would definitely consider PDT between the two becuase of the diversity of flying and a large spectrum of domiciles which will come in handy if you are from the south or the north.
Also if you havn't flown the Dash before, its pretty fun when not at cruise of course. I come out of flying jets and I'm still having a good time becuase it reminds me of a SuperCub, no lie.
Good luck,
LR25
We have some pretty cool people to fly with at Piedmont. The domiciles seem to be better than ALG and the places we fly will get you alot of different scenery.
And the "lifers" that where mentioned before are cool people too, I havn'e seen many bad attitudes as far as who your flying with on a trip.
And we have the 3 types of Dash's WITH APU's I might add not that its a big deal or anything, just makes it nice.
I might be a little biased but, I would definitely consider PDT between the two becuase of the diversity of flying and a large spectrum of domiciles which will come in handy if you are from the south or the north.
Also if you havn't flown the Dash before, its pretty fun when not at cruise of course. I come out of flying jets and I'm still having a good time becuase it reminds me of a SuperCub, no lie.
Good luck,
LR25
base info
Syr is your best bet. They seem to be expanding sce at this time. the 2 most junior are syr and bgm. there is talk of another base (bwi/phl?) but as usual we will be the last to know and I wouldn't believe till I see it.
For thoes who ask about RJ's my answer is who the f_ck knows. Personally I don't care. I like the dash and the routes/flying we do. The cockpit is big roomy and quiet. It's built better than the jungle crap chicken jet. It pays me more than RJ boy too. Its the best turboprop ride out there along with the atr.
Syr is your best bet. They seem to be expanding sce at this time. the 2 most junior are syr and bgm. there is talk of another base (bwi/phl?) but as usual we will be the last to know and I wouldn't believe till I see it.
For thoes who ask about RJ's my answer is who the f_ck knows. Personally I don't care. I like the dash and the routes/flying we do. The cockpit is big roomy and quiet. It's built better than the jungle crap chicken jet. It pays me more than RJ boy too. Its the best turboprop ride out there along with the atr.
Commuter Dog
Member
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- Jan 15, 2002
- Posts
- 8
ALG
I can only speak for ALG. I have worked here for over 13 years. I would encourage you to work for PDT. The problem with ALG is it's management. They do not care about their employees. Since sept. 11, they have been systematically cutting our pay. If it looks like you will go over 30 hours in a seven day period they will change your schedule prior that day just to keep from paying you. They may add time to your schedule and when you are 30/7, They will send you home and not pay you for rest of your schedule. If you talk to our company reps, They will tell you we our the highest paid pilots. What they don't tell you is that they will do everything in there power not to pay you what the contract, That they are telling you is so "GREAT", say's you are to be paid. The training dept. is the worst in the industry. The faa is always on ALG butt for traing errors.
My advice is to go to work for PDT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can only speak for ALG. I have worked here for over 13 years. I would encourage you to work for PDT. The problem with ALG is it's management. They do not care about their employees. Since sept. 11, they have been systematically cutting our pay. If it looks like you will go over 30 hours in a seven day period they will change your schedule prior that day just to keep from paying you. They may add time to your schedule and when you are 30/7, They will send you home and not pay you for rest of your schedule. If you talk to our company reps, They will tell you we our the highest paid pilots. What they don't tell you is that they will do everything in there power not to pay you what the contract, That they are telling you is so "GREAT", say's you are to be paid. The training dept. is the worst in the industry. The faa is always on ALG butt for traing errors.
My advice is to go to work for PDT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: ALG
If you're going to exceed 30/7, then the FAR's mandate that the company change your schedule so that you won't go over. That's the law - not ALG management. If the flying was put in your schedule - you will get paid for it, even if they take it out for a 30/7 problem. If they didn't pay you for it, you need to talk to Jan and get it corrected. BTW, I think the pay here is pretty good. A 5 yr CA making 70K. Pretty good for a regional if you ask me.
As far as the slam on the training dept. and you assertion that the FAA is all over us about "training errors" is BS. That is simply not true. The fact that you would make such a statement without offering any type of proof leads me to believe you have something personal against someone in the dept. True? I have been in the training dept for many years. We have a very good program. It is a very thorough program and new-hires can find it to be quite challenging. But the product of such a program is a safe and well-trained pilot group.
As far as working for a regional, ALG and PDT are pretty close and in my opinion are one of the best regionals to work for. I think the deciding factor as to which company one would go to should be which type of Skiing they like - water or snow. You shouldn't tell someone not to come here based on you having a personal problem with some people in Mgmt. Tell them your opinion yes, but let them make their own decision. I'm sure you can find pilots at PDT that will tell you PDT is a bad company to work for. No company has 100% employee satifaction. Do you remember that old saying that says something about the grass being greener on the other side? Well, it's true. Perhaps you should go and find out and let us know.
Commuter Dog said:
If you're going to exceed 30/7, then the FAR's mandate that the company change your schedule so that you won't go over. That's the law - not ALG management. If the flying was put in your schedule - you will get paid for it, even if they take it out for a 30/7 problem. If they didn't pay you for it, you need to talk to Jan and get it corrected. BTW, I think the pay here is pretty good. A 5 yr CA making 70K. Pretty good for a regional if you ask me.
As far as the slam on the training dept. and you assertion that the FAA is all over us about "training errors" is BS. That is simply not true. The fact that you would make such a statement without offering any type of proof leads me to believe you have something personal against someone in the dept. True? I have been in the training dept for many years. We have a very good program. It is a very thorough program and new-hires can find it to be quite challenging. But the product of such a program is a safe and well-trained pilot group.
As far as working for a regional, ALG and PDT are pretty close and in my opinion are one of the best regionals to work for. I think the deciding factor as to which company one would go to should be which type of Skiing they like - water or snow. You shouldn't tell someone not to come here based on you having a personal problem with some people in Mgmt. Tell them your opinion yes, but let them make their own decision. I'm sure you can find pilots at PDT that will tell you PDT is a bad company to work for. No company has 100% employee satifaction. Do you remember that old saying that says something about the grass being greener on the other side? Well, it's true. Perhaps you should go and find out and let us know.
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Coummuter dog
Read your contract...once you are awarded the trip, you are pay protected. 30/7 can't leagally be scheduled. If it looks as if you'll go over, yea, they'll pull you for a leg or two, but you're still pay protected.
As far as I know, PDT does not have ALG's Rescheduling premium pay, which is a great perk to the Contract. (They probably have stuff we don't have that we wish we did, too) RPP is 1 for 2 at your hourly rate for each duty hour starting at 2 hours after your original trip hour period ends till you finish the trip, if your rescheduled. No one that I know of has that. That is why AIR, Inc. shows Allegheny pilots AVERAGE pay at 100 hours per month.
Both Co's are solid companies.
Fly safe
Read your contract...once you are awarded the trip, you are pay protected. 30/7 can't leagally be scheduled. If it looks as if you'll go over, yea, they'll pull you for a leg or two, but you're still pay protected.
As far as I know, PDT does not have ALG's Rescheduling premium pay, which is a great perk to the Contract. (They probably have stuff we don't have that we wish we did, too) RPP is 1 for 2 at your hourly rate for each duty hour starting at 2 hours after your original trip hour period ends till you finish the trip, if your rescheduled. No one that I know of has that. That is why AIR, Inc. shows Allegheny pilots AVERAGE pay at 100 hours per month.
Both Co's are solid companies.
Fly safe
Commuter Dog
Member
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- 8
I do not have to read my contract, All I have to do is look at my paycheck. I worked on the last contract so I know what is in it.I phoned Jan and she told me that any change to my sschedule was a RC even if it forced me into 30/7. I do not appreciate the slam from ALGFLYR and it just proves my point. All you have to do is say one negative comment about our worthless training dept. and they are all over you for saying anything. " IF the shoe fits".I recieved the comment from our POI, THE FAA. This is the type of pilot you will be flying with if you come to this unprofessional company. As far as your LAW comment on 30/7 you had better read your FAR'ss, Legal to start legal to finish. You just prove my point about the training dept at ALG with every line you type.
trainer8 : The company is making small change to your contract to force you into RC language, ie; ferry flights, fly a deffernt round trip then the scheduled trip. I would check your paycheck.The average pay at ALG is now 88 hourss. Check it out
p.s. I was union rep at ALG for 6 years.
trainer8 : The company is making small change to your contract to force you into RC language, ie; ferry flights, fly a deffernt round trip then the scheduled trip. I would check your paycheck.The average pay at ALG is now 88 hourss. Check it out
p.s. I was union rep at ALG for 6 years.
scouts out!
Active member
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- Dec 24, 2001
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- 38
30/7
It is absolutely true, legal to start legal to finish. However if in the morning prior to your trip you will go over by one minute the company must change your schedule. For a 16 hour duty day however if you have 14 hrs 30 min duty day and have one last leg worth 1 hr 15 and then another 15 after landing before your off duty bringing total time to 1hr 30min then your legal to try to leave if you take the runway and you see that your going to be one minute late, then you have to return to the gate. Legal to start and legal to finish DOES NOT apply to DUTY DAY but it does apply to flight time for a 30/7 or 8hr day or 100hrs in a month. Grass is always greener on the other side. Try living under PSA's contract,it SUCKS! Know your contract and use it against the company and don't let them use it against you. PDT and ALG are both exceptional companies, but we all have our problems.
It is absolutely true, legal to start legal to finish. However if in the morning prior to your trip you will go over by one minute the company must change your schedule. For a 16 hour duty day however if you have 14 hrs 30 min duty day and have one last leg worth 1 hr 15 and then another 15 after landing before your off duty bringing total time to 1hr 30min then your legal to try to leave if you take the runway and you see that your going to be one minute late, then you have to return to the gate. Legal to start and legal to finish DOES NOT apply to DUTY DAY but it does apply to flight time for a 30/7 or 8hr day or 100hrs in a month. Grass is always greener on the other side. Try living under PSA's contract,it SUCKS! Know your contract and use it against the company and don't let them use it against you. PDT and ALG are both exceptional companies, but we all have our problems.
Flufdriver
Active member
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- Dec 7, 2001
- Posts
- 26
ALG is controlling costs
Commuter Dog is 100% right. It was the Omibus Agreement of the mid 90's that has us by the short hairs. We were sold out by a dictator leadership. The RC language works to save the company $ at the expense of the pilot's income. The language's original intent was to give relief to the company for events beyond their control WX/MX. Now it is being abused at our expense. And our online pay system is another cost saver by making it totally inconvenient for the pilot's to fight discrepancies, and there are many.
We are growing again but, it is only the begining of the 10 year cycle. Just look at the last cycle. 50% of our company was sold outright to MESA and we were making money at that time and expanding. I had to give up my seat of 4 years and take a 15K/YR paycut. Majors had plenty on the street then too. Just give it a few years. These Dash-8's may look pretty from the outside but they are getting tired. Just 2 more years and most of them will be flying freight way down south. That's when the cycle will hit again for the negative. Make no mistake, being a wholly-owned regional is a "Wait till the next shaft" proposition at best. Just hope your timing and age can handle the 7 year upgrade we once had just a few short years ago.
My 13 years in this industy and 3 cycles observed gives me some valuable insights on the way a mainline management/pilot groups views it's owned subsidiaries AS EXPENDABLE LIABILITIES. Don't expect flow-through or jets at any of these Wholly Screwed Regionals. I see a sale and dumping the Dash' s in 2 years with the pilots best hopes on the bottom of a MESA or TSA seniority list. Just my 2 cents though. Timing is everything. If you can get your PIC time in by the time the majors hire again in '06 you'll be set. Hell, contract carriers are where it's at man, if you hope to move on. They will be getting scores of RJ's as the mainline brother's sell out they're own again. US Airways will shrink for sale and ALG,PDT,PSA will run feed for the RJ's like we're starting to do now!
FYI. ALG has about 80 pilot's with 15+ years, all casualities of past cycles and bad timing.
Commuter Dog is 100% right. It was the Omibus Agreement of the mid 90's that has us by the short hairs. We were sold out by a dictator leadership. The RC language works to save the company $ at the expense of the pilot's income. The language's original intent was to give relief to the company for events beyond their control WX/MX. Now it is being abused at our expense. And our online pay system is another cost saver by making it totally inconvenient for the pilot's to fight discrepancies, and there are many.
We are growing again but, it is only the begining of the 10 year cycle. Just look at the last cycle. 50% of our company was sold outright to MESA and we were making money at that time and expanding. I had to give up my seat of 4 years and take a 15K/YR paycut. Majors had plenty on the street then too. Just give it a few years. These Dash-8's may look pretty from the outside but they are getting tired. Just 2 more years and most of them will be flying freight way down south. That's when the cycle will hit again for the negative. Make no mistake, being a wholly-owned regional is a "Wait till the next shaft" proposition at best. Just hope your timing and age can handle the 7 year upgrade we once had just a few short years ago.
My 13 years in this industy and 3 cycles observed gives me some valuable insights on the way a mainline management/pilot groups views it's owned subsidiaries AS EXPENDABLE LIABILITIES. Don't expect flow-through or jets at any of these Wholly Screwed Regionals. I see a sale and dumping the Dash' s in 2 years with the pilots best hopes on the bottom of a MESA or TSA seniority list. Just my 2 cents though. Timing is everything. If you can get your PIC time in by the time the majors hire again in '06 you'll be set. Hell, contract carriers are where it's at man, if you hope to move on. They will be getting scores of RJ's as the mainline brother's sell out they're own again. US Airways will shrink for sale and ALG,PDT,PSA will run feed for the RJ's like we're starting to do now!
FYI. ALG has about 80 pilot's with 15+ years, all casualities of past cycles and bad timing.
Commuter Dog
Member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2002
- Posts
- 8
Commuter Dog said:
You worked on the last contract? I didn't see your name as part of the negotiating committee.
As far as the slam, well, you started the slamming by making inaccurate remarks about our training department. You said we are worthless and the FAA is always on our butt for "training errors". So, you flame me, call me worthless and say we are "the worst in the industry" and you expect a positive return comment from me?? Are you stupid?? Of course I'll defend myself if you are spreading false accusations. I challenge you to state any of the "training errors" that the FAA is constantly on our butt about. And you say Ron told you this? I personally know that Ron thinks we have a first class training dept. I see him on a regular basis and will ask him why he told you that the next time I see him. It's not my intent to get into a public pissing match with you, but if these error are out there, they are being kept a secret and we need to know about them so we can correct them.
As far as your original comments about the company trying to not pay us in certain R/C events, I see now that it's true. Evidently, this is something that just started. I see they are trying to get out of paying certain people money they are due. This is unfortunate. I'm sure we will prevail in a grievance which will certainly be filed. The language seems clear to me and if we can just find those **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** notes on the negotiating history, all will be settled. (I've heard they are now missing - how convenient) Make no mistake that I'm on our side, I just take the bashing on the training dept. personal.
Commuter Dog
Member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2002
- Posts
- 8
Cheat and retreat
If you remember the orginal posting , It was not directed at you. I was posting my opion about the company. I don't even know who you are. If your opion is that this company is so great, use this forum to tell people why. Don't use it to attack people who do not agree with you. That is a big problem with our training dept. If you have a opion, on flying, differnt for our instrutors you are wrong. You just proved my point.So now I am stupid. Anyone who reads this and is thinking about coming to ALG , I would read what ALGFLYR wrote and you will see why you should not come to ALG. This person claims to run the Training Dept. You will called stupid, They will atack you and then later,after they see their mistake ,They won't say they are incorrect. ALGFLYR uses a debate tactic. It is called " Cheat and retreat". ALGFLYR will attack you, call you names, and after this He will say that this is not the forum for this. I can not respond without looking silly.
As for training errots. Do you remember when the FAA shut down our traing dept. when ALG was training pilots to hold at the outer marker and finish the "fire inflight checklist" before landing after a inflight fire. It happened in the TORONTO SIM.
How about Cathy Martin, You know who she is, coming into groundschools and telling the pilots that what we are being taught in ground school is wrong.
If anyone is considering to come to ALG make sure you read ALGFLYR's posting. This is the type of "TRAINING PILOT" who will guide you through your traing at ALG..
Next time you are talking to your good budding " RON ". ask him if he feels Chuck brewer is doing a good job at ALG. I think you will be suprised at his candor. Also ask him if he told me and a line check airman if he thought ALG was a joke. He advised us to get out before the place gets shut down.
I do not app. being called stupid. All I am trying to do is keep people from coming and throwing away there career just like I did.
GO TO WORK FOR PDT THEY WILL TREAT YOU WITH RESPECT.
p.s. I would not want my name on that contract. A few of the MEC members were recalled for that contract. Ask SCE or SYR how they feel about the contact.
Also, The neg committee does not have much say in the contract, The MEC decides everything. Ask your buddy Matt.
If you remember the orginal posting , It was not directed at you. I was posting my opion about the company. I don't even know who you are. If your opion is that this company is so great, use this forum to tell people why. Don't use it to attack people who do not agree with you. That is a big problem with our training dept. If you have a opion, on flying, differnt for our instrutors you are wrong. You just proved my point.So now I am stupid. Anyone who reads this and is thinking about coming to ALG , I would read what ALGFLYR wrote and you will see why you should not come to ALG. This person claims to run the Training Dept. You will called stupid, They will atack you and then later,after they see their mistake ,They won't say they are incorrect. ALGFLYR uses a debate tactic. It is called " Cheat and retreat". ALGFLYR will attack you, call you names, and after this He will say that this is not the forum for this. I can not respond without looking silly.
As for training errots. Do you remember when the FAA shut down our traing dept. when ALG was training pilots to hold at the outer marker and finish the "fire inflight checklist" before landing after a inflight fire. It happened in the TORONTO SIM.
How about Cathy Martin, You know who she is, coming into groundschools and telling the pilots that what we are being taught in ground school is wrong.
If anyone is considering to come to ALG make sure you read ALGFLYR's posting. This is the type of "TRAINING PILOT" who will guide you through your traing at ALG..
Next time you are talking to your good budding " RON ". ask him if he feels Chuck brewer is doing a good job at ALG. I think you will be suprised at his candor. Also ask him if he told me and a line check airman if he thought ALG was a joke. He advised us to get out before the place gets shut down.
I do not app. being called stupid. All I am trying to do is keep people from coming and throwing away there career just like I did.
GO TO WORK FOR PDT THEY WILL TREAT YOU WITH RESPECT.
p.s. I would not want my name on that contract. A few of the MEC members were recalled for that contract. Ask SCE or SYR how they feel about the contact.
Also, The neg committee does not have much say in the contract, The MEC decides everything. Ask your buddy Matt.
Re: Cheat and retreat
That is the only thing I agree with in your last post.
Sorry, couldn't resist that one.
Look Davy, It's obvious that a rational debate is an impossibility with you. You may read my posts, but you evidently do not understand them. I was going to address each part of your last post but decided you wouldn't listen anyway. You just seem to be looking for a way to flame someone. And that's OK, you're entitled to do what you want. All I will say in this, my last response to you, is that ALG has a very professional training dept and has a very professional pilot group (save a few though). You obviously look down on our company, and you are entitled to your opinion.
As far as our training dept. being shut down for what you claim happened in YYZ. That's the first I've heard about that. I will find out what happened though. I am betting it was an isolated incident that perhaps one instructor taught? I don't know. If that was the case, surely it was corrected. The training dept was not shutdown. And that was never a standard operating procedure that was taught here.
Fly Safe.
Commuter Dog said:
That is the only thing I agree with in your last post.
Sorry, couldn't resist that one.
Look Davy, It's obvious that a rational debate is an impossibility with you. You may read my posts, but you evidently do not understand them. I was going to address each part of your last post but decided you wouldn't listen anyway. You just seem to be looking for a way to flame someone. And that's OK, you're entitled to do what you want. All I will say in this, my last response to you, is that ALG has a very professional training dept and has a very professional pilot group (save a few though). You obviously look down on our company, and you are entitled to your opinion.
As far as our training dept. being shut down for what you claim happened in YYZ. That's the first I've heard about that. I will find out what happened though. I am betting it was an isolated incident that perhaps one instructor taught? I don't know. If that was the case, surely it was corrected. The training dept was not shutdown. And that was never a standard operating procedure that was taught here.
Fly Safe.
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