All this bad news, on top of age 65.

[Smarta$$]

When you consider all the recent events, age 65 REALLY screwed us BAD. BAD. BAD.

 

[captainv]

you don't think Al Queda was worse?

 

[atlcrashpad]

I guess in this industry Seniority really is everything....... sux if ur on duh bottom....... bouyyyyyyyy....

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

BAD BAD BAD is having yer 60 Bday the day before this this got signed

 

[NoahWerka]

I quit last year at 59 1/2, after the rule was passed. Screw 'em. Got tired of being away from home. Over the last 20 years I spent more nights in a hotel or crash pad than I did at home. It sure is good get up every morning when I want to, go and do what I want to, and go to bed when I want to. And, I ain't near as tired as I used to be, even on more alcohol and less sleep.
:beer:

 

[PCL_128]

you don't think Al Queda was worse?

The effects of 9/11 are well behind us at this point. Face facts: age 65 is screwing over a lot of people at a lot of majors right now, not to mention the regional guys that can't move up.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Yup, age 65 put a major hurting on a lot of people. Once again, pilots eat there young...

A lot of people have gotten hurt in this industry in the past 8 years, not the least of which were pilots in the last 5 years of their careers looking at retirements. Had we not seen the massive A and B plan cuts that came with the bankruptcies, age 65 would still be a fantasy held by masochistic workaholics.

I think the next biggest "clique" of pilots impacted would be the 30-40 year old pilots. Many of us (I am one) were awaiting that dreamed of cushy legacy job on 9/10/01. In the following years, the industry remained essentially stagnent while our lived did the exact opposite. We gained families and mortgages and all of the baggage associated with having a "life." When the next spat of hiring ensued, many were and are unable to make the jump... It is a lot more difficult to take the pay cut when you have baggage than it would have been in your late twenties with fewer responsibilities.

That is the choice I (and a lot of others) are faced with now. Put your family through hell or figure out what life will look like with substantially less lifetime earnings. Not what any of us signed up for, I think.

 

[DoinTime]

you don't think Al Queda was worse?

Actually, the Bush administration has been the most detrimental factor in piloting careers over the past eight years.

 

[gator_hater]

Actually, the Bush administration has been the most detrimental factor in piloting careers over the past eight years.

That's right because a good economy with many people spending money on travel is bad for pilots. Whereas higher taxes and less travel from the Dems is good. KISS

 

[Jetjockey]

That's right because a good economy with many people spending money on travel is bad for pilots. Whereas higher taxes and less travel from the Dems is good. KISS

Yeah, Like when Clinton raised taxes, and the economy exploded with growth.

Bush lowers taxes, starts a ill advised war, and look at the economy now.

 

[gator_hater]

Our current economic situation is not the same. First of all Clinton's unemployment during the "great" years was >6%, current "crappy" economy is 5.1%. Clinton's taxes coincided with a techno boom that eventually imploded on speculation similar to today's housing. If Bush's tax cuts continue history will likely prove that Clinton's recession was deeper and longer. Just because CNN, MSNBC, NBC, and the internet say that the economy is bad does not make it true.

 

[Smacktard]

Our current economic situation is not the same. First of all Clinton's unemployment during the "great" years was >6%, current "crappy" economy is 5.1%. Clinton's taxes coincided with a techno boom that eventually imploded on speculation similar to today's housing. If Bush's tax cuts continue history will likely prove that Clinton's recession was deeper and longer. Just because CNN, MSNBC, NBC, and the internet say that the economy is bad does not make it true.

Well Clinton has to claim some credit for the techno boom, afterall, Gore did invent the internet...

 

[PCL_128]

First of all Clinton's unemployment during the "great" years was >6%

Umm, unemployment got down to 4.2% under Clinton. Not sure where you're getting your numbers from.

 

[CoolSidePillow]

Clinton was almost impeached for a skull session in the oval orafice.

Bush bent over the entire country for a prison shower.

He also put us in debt for the next generation started wars to find criminals. Oh yeah, helped get the pipeline contract out of the Caspian Sea for all of his and daddy's buddies. Oil at over $100 a barrel and historic increases in the shortest amount of time. The entire Bush regime is eyeball deep in oil but I am sure that is just a coincidence.

Mcain is a zillion years old and Hillary is, well a chick. We are all doomed.

 

[captainv]

The effects of 9/11 are well behind us at this point. Face facts: age 65 is screwing over a lot of people at a lot of majors right now, not to mention the regional guys that can't move up.

Age 65 will delay career progression for 5 years. couldn't the exact same thing occur via a merger, bankruptcy, recession? I would argue 9/11 and its effect on the oil markets have had a much longer/more wide-ranging effect on this industry than age 65. Besides, age 65 just passed, what, a few months ago?

 

[PCL_128]

Age 65 will delay career progression for 5 years. couldn't the exact same thing occur via a merger, bankruptcy, recession?

Yes, but now it will be much worse because both are occurring simultaneously. Instead of just stagnation due to a recession, now we have airlines shrinking at the same time that the seniority list isn't moving from retirements. During the time after 9/11, thousands of pilots continued to retire. This recession, those pilots will keep on flying. Imagine how many more pilots would have been furloughed after 9/11 if thousands hadn't retired.

Besides, age 65 just passed, what, a few months ago?

Yes, and in that time frame there were supposed to be hundreds of mandatory retirements at the legacies. Each legacy had dozens of scheduled retirements for every single month. Not any more. Now instead of just stagnation, we might see more furloughs instead. Thanks geezers.

 

[captainv]

Yes, but now it will be much worse because both are occurring simultaneously. Instead of just stagnation due to a recession, now we have airlines shrinking at the same time that the seniority list isn't moving from retirements. During the time after 9/11, thousands of pilots continued to retire. This recession, those pilots will keep on flying. Imagine how many more pilots would have been furloughed after 9/11 if thousands hadn't retired.

ok, but the airlines aren't shrinking like they did after 9/11. DAL went from 9,000 pilots to 6,000 pilots awfully quick. the retirements spiked later because of the lump sum payments in lieu of losing their pensions. what's DAL up to now? i don't know, but a lot less than 9,000. from what I hear now, the legacies have stopped hiring. they're not furloughing 30% of their seniority lists...

Yes, and in that time frame there were supposed to be hundreds of mandatory retirements at the legacies. Each legacy had dozens of scheduled retirements for every single month. Not any more. Now instead of just stagnation, we might see more furloughs instead. Thanks geezers.

hey, lots of us want the job at a major. the push for age 65 was in large part to the decimation of contracts/pensions in the wake of 9/11 (again, I would say its influence dominates age 65). but even if the geezers all wanted it, they can't change the rule. Congress did, and not to benefit the pilots. FAA wants to become more like ICAO, so Congress pushed it through.

maybe it's a good thing. Better to be hired early in the hiring wave than at the tail end....

 

[BLing]

I interviewed at Omni last month. One guy was retired Continental and the other was retired American. The ones that did leave the industry are comming back now. Not cool! Granted I was hired into the 757, but eventually turned them down. Some other qualified guy might not be so lucky next time...

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

I interviewed at Omni last month. One guy was retired Continental and the other was retired American. The ones that did leave the industry are comming back now. Not cool! Granted I was hired into the 757, but eventually turned them down. Some other qualified guy might not be so lucky next time...

60+ and putting up with 15 days around the world? Not what I want to be doing in my golden years, unless its drinking in first class.

 

[JustaNumber]

I would suggest the biggest 3 detriments to the piloting career recently would be: 1) the internet, 2) bankruptcy judges, and 3) the price of oil.

In the late 90's, airlines foolishly lost control of their pricing abilities by trying to circumvent travel agents, with the promotion of sites like orbitz and travelocity. It actually started allowing market competition for ticket prices, which overall is a good thing, but bad for pilot contracts that were based on previous profit margin models.

During the post 9/11 wave of bankruptcies, sympathetic judges allowed extremely weak companies to continue to survive, even giving them unfair competitive advantages. This led to a domino effect of all the other airlines practically being forced to slash compensation just to be able to compete and survive. I believe that had United and/or USAirways been allowed to fail, yes, many jobs would have been lost, but there wouldn't have been an oversupply of seats on the market, profit margins would have remained more stable, and the pilot career would have remained intact.

And finally, every time the airlines seem to have adjusted their operations to adapt to the latest market conditions, oil prices keep spiking. Not the airlines' fault, but we'll all pay for it. Blame the price of oil on either record world demand, speculators looking for a good bet after the housing market collapse, or Bush sucks, your choice.

Regardless of the reasons, this career has always been an unstable one, and always will be.