All this bad news, on top of age 65.

[bailout]

geez, when are you guys going to get it? 5 more years of income AT ANY PAY RATE, is far better than not. So you get delayed a few years, you're still going to get 'there', and for 5 years longer.

 

[BLing]

60+ and putting up with 15 days around the world? Not what I want to be doing in my golden years, unless its drinking in first class.

I think its a combo of poor finacial planning and not being able to spend everyday with the third skanky ex FA wife...

 

[Speedtape]

Age 65 will delay career progression for 5 years. couldn't the exact same thing occur via a merger, bankruptcy, recession? I would argue 9/11 and its effect on the oil markets have had a much longer/more wide-ranging effect on this industry than age 65. Besides, age 65 just passed, what, a few months ago?

Age 65 rule? Hmm, didn't every pilot get the same derived benefit from that change?

Pilot shortate? If there ever was one, it was short-lived! As each airline bankrupts, the available pilot pool grows!

 

[highsky]

I would suggest the biggest 3 detriments to the piloting career recently would be: 1) the internet, 2) bankruptcy judges, and 3) the price of oil.

In the late 90's, airlines foolishly lost control of their pricing abilities by trying to circumvent travel agents, with the promotion of sites like orbitz and travelocity. It actually started allowing market competition for ticket prices, which overall is a good thing, but bad for pilot contracts that were based on previous profit margin models.

During the post 9/11 wave of bankruptcies, sympathetic judges allowed extremely weak companies to continue to survive, even giving them unfair competitive advantages. This led to a domino effect of all the other airlines practically being forced to slash compensation just to be able to compete and survive. I believe that had United and/or USAirways been allowed to fail, yes, many jobs would have been lost, but there wouldn't have been an oversupply of seats on the market, profit margins would have remained more stable, and the pilot career would have remained intact.

And finally, every time the airlines seem to have adjusted their operations to adapt to the latest market conditions, oil prices keep spiking. Not the airlines' fault, but we'll all pay for it. Blame the price of oil on either record world demand, speculators looking for a good bet after the housing market collapse, or Bush sucks, your choice.

Regardless of the reasons, this career has always been an unstable one, and always will be.

Well said.

 

[shindler]

What r u talking about, if UAL were allowed to fail? They were denied any help from the govt. ATSB loan? Never got it. They got help from their employees!!!

 

[N2264J]

Re: All this bad news, on top of age 65

What r u talking about, if UAL were allowed to fail?

Tilton went public after United had been in bankruptcy for around 2 years and said he was using Chapter 11 as a "competitive strategy" while Delta, Continental and American were actually having to pay their bills.

My understanding is that bankruptcy was meant to be used for a 6 month to one year turn around - not a competitive strategy.

 

[PCL_128]

geez, when are you guys going to get it? 5 more years of income AT ANY PAY RATE, is far better than not. So you get delayed a few years, you're still going to get 'there', and for 5 years longer.

No, when are you going to get it: we don't want to work an extra five years!!!!

 

[rtmcfi]

geez, when are you guys going to get it? 5 more years of income AT ANY PAY RATE, is far better than not. So you get delayed a few years, you're still going to get 'there', and for 5 years longer.

Dear Simpleton,
Please research compound interest. You will find that you can retire early, with more money if 65 had not happened. I guess you are happy to work 5 more years, and have less money in your retirement?

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Age 65 will delay career progression for 5 years.

i really don't know if it will delay progression for a full 5 years, maybe a little bit.
For one thing, it's harder to keep a medical the older a pilot gets. All those years of flying crappy hours and heavy drinking on layovers :beer: take a toll on the body and eventually catch up with you later down the line. It's not for sure that all pilots can even keep a medical all the way to 65.
Just because the age has been bumped up to 65 doesn't automatically mean that every pilot even wants to continue past 60. I know that I'll be tired of living out of a suitcase by that time.

 

[jmreii]

Actually, the Bush administration has been the most detrimental factor in piloting careers over the past eight years.

I wonder what was the percentage of airline pilots that voted for the current administration. oh well the captain always goes down with the ship, and he usually takes the crew with him. good luck.

 

[jmreii]

I would suggest the biggest 3 detriments to the piloting career recently would be: 1) the internet, 2) bankruptcy judges, and 3) the price of oil.

In the late 90's, airlines foolishly lost control of their pricing abilities by trying to circumvent travel agents, with the promotion of sites like orbitz and travelocity. It actually started allowing market competition for ticket prices, which overall is a good thing, but bad for pilot contracts that were based on previous profit margin models.

During the post 9/11 wave of bankruptcies, sympathetic judges allowed extremely weak companies to continue to survive, even giving them unfair competitive advantages. This led to a domino effect of all the other airlines practically being forced to slash compensation just to be able to compete and survive. I believe that had United and/or USAirways been allowed to fail, yes, many jobs would have been lost, but there wouldn't have been an oversupply of seats on the market, profit margins would have remained more stable, and the pilot career would have remained intact.

And finally, every time the airlines seem to have adjusted their operations to adapt to the latest market conditions, oil prices keep spiking. Not the airlines' fault, but we'll all pay for it. Blame the price of oil on either record world demand, speculators looking for a good bet after the housing market collapse, or Bush sucks, your choice.

Regardless of the reasons, this career has always been an unstable one, and always will be.

I think you are on to something. yes it is bad to have one or two major airlines in the U.S. to fail, but the downside is all the rest of the airline industry slowly bleeding to death. pan am, eastern did not die overnight, it was more like 20 years for pan am and 15 years for eastern. may they rest in peace and no longer suffer.

 

[jmreii]

I would suggest the biggest 3 detriments to the piloting career recently would be: 1) the internet, 2) bankruptcy judges, and 3) the price of oil.

In the late 90's, airlines foolishly lost control of their pricing abilities by trying to circumvent travel agents, with the promotion of sites like orbitz and travelocity. It actually started allowing market competition for ticket prices, which overall is a good thing, but bad for pilot contracts that were based on previous profit margin models.

During the post 9/11 wave of bankruptcies, sympathetic judges allowed extremely weak companies to continue to survive, even giving them unfair competitive advantages. This led to a domino effect of all the other airlines practically being forced to slash compensation just to be able to compete and survive. I believe that had United and/or USAirways been allowed to fail, yes, many jobs would have been lost, but there wouldn't have been an oversupply of seats on the market, profit margins would have remained more stable, and the pilot career would have remained intact.

And finally, every time the airlines seem to have adjusted their operations to adapt to the latest market conditions, oil prices keep spiking. Not the airlines' fault, but we'll all pay for it. Blame the price of oil on either record world demand, speculators looking for a good bet after the housing market collapse, or Bush sucks, your choice.

Regardless of the reasons, this career has always been an unstable one, and always will be.

you are right, there will be no way to stop the bleeding of this industry. pan am and eastern took years to die. they were sick 20 and 15 years before they finally called it quits. the economy was not as bad as it is now, and fuel was not at 100 dollars a barrel for whatever reason.

 

[Hamburger]

Coupla thousand pilots on the street this week. I wonder if any of them supported the change so that tens of thousands of pilots can stagnate hiring for the next five years?

 

[Midnight Flyer]

hope that will slow down the hiring of the 200 hour wonderpilot for awhile.

 

[bailout]

Dear Simpleton,
Please research compound interest. You will find that you can retire early, with more money if 65 had not happened. I guess you are happy to work 5 more years, and have less money in your retirement?

not entirely true, but the issue here seems more like you guys dont want to work the extra 5 years. I can certainly understand that, but re read this thread when you're 50, divorced, 3 kids in college, or worse a sick child, etc.. THEN tell me you don't need to work an extra 5 years. (and NO, this is not about me,) but life will throw you curve balls, and the ABILITY to work and extra 5 years is a lifesaver for many. I like the idea of having a chioce thats all.

 

[RompXS4D]

Age 65 didn't screw anyone in my opinion. I just gained back 5 years over the 3 that I lost in salary due to 9/11. Plus it is a band-aid for all the United/US Air boys and pole dancers that lost their pensions.

 

[FO 4 Life]

Age 65 screwed everybody that wasn't already a captain.

2 35 year olds get hired 1 month apart. The first one upgrades in 10 years at 45. Poof, age 65 happens and now the next pilot doesn't make captain for 5 more years. The first pilot can have 20 years as captain versus 15 for the second pilot. That's 5 years lower income, less retirement, etc.

 

[Speedtape]

Age 65 screwed everybody that wasn't already a captain.

2 35 year olds get hired 1 month apart. The first one upgrades in 10 years at 45. Poof, age 65 happens and now the next pilot doesn't make captain for 5 more years. The first pilot can have 20 years as captain versus 15 for the second pilot. That's 5 years lower income, less retirement, etc.

Get over it! The world does not revolve around YOU! Maybe, if you find another occupation, you could help contribute to the pilot shortage and someone else who does not whine as much could move up a spot.

The Fact is: The law changed, and mandatory retirement is 65.

Your Opinion can be: It's the worst thing that ever happened in your career, or, get over the speed bump and take the extra 5 years that they just gave you also.

This is a DYNAMIC Industry, and THERE WILL BE WORSE THINGS THAT WILL HAPPEN DURING YOUR CAREER!

 

[Patriot328]

not entirely true, but the issue here seems more like you guys dont want to work the extra 5 years. I can certainly understand that, but re read this thread when you're 50, divorced, 3 kids in college, or worse a sick child, etc.. THEN tell me you don't need to work an extra 5 years. (and NO, this is not about me,) but life will throw you curve balls, and the ABILITY to work and extra 5 years is a lifesaver for many. I like the idea of having a chioce thats all.

The problem with your example is, unless you are already a captain when the law changes, you will make the same amount of money now, working until age 65, as you would have working until 60 under the old system.

So your 3 ex wives, sick kid, lost pension, doesn't matter. You're still going to have to work 5 more years for the same amount of money if you aren't already a captain.

 

[CitationUltra]

The effects of 9/11 are well behind us at this point. Face facts: age 65 is screwing over a lot of people at a lot of majors right now, not to mention the regional guys that can't move up.

Then why not discriminate even further and make the retirement age 50, so that these pilots that you for some reason believe are entitled to "move up" at the expense of someone else's career, can do so even earlier?