All this bad news, on top of age 65.

[PCL_128]

Age 65 will delay career progression for 5 years. couldn't the exact same thing occur via a merger, bankruptcy, recession?

Yes, but now it will be much worse because both are occurring simultaneously. Instead of just stagnation due to a recession, now we have airlines shrinking at the same time that the seniority list isn't moving from retirements. During the time after 9/11, thousands of pilots continued to retire. This recession, those pilots will keep on flying. Imagine how many more pilots would have been furloughed after 9/11 if thousands hadn't retired.

Besides, age 65 just passed, what, a few months ago?

Yes, and in that time frame there were supposed to be hundreds of mandatory retirements at the legacies. Each legacy had dozens of scheduled retirements for every single month. Not any more. Now instead of just stagnation, we might see more furloughs instead. Thanks geezers.

 

[captainv]

Yes, but now it will be much worse because both are occurring simultaneously. Instead of just stagnation due to a recession, now we have airlines shrinking at the same time that the seniority list isn't moving from retirements. During the time after 9/11, thousands of pilots continued to retire. This recession, those pilots will keep on flying. Imagine how many more pilots would have been furloughed after 9/11 if thousands hadn't retired.

ok, but the airlines aren't shrinking like they did after 9/11. DAL went from 9,000 pilots to 6,000 pilots awfully quick. the retirements spiked later because of the lump sum payments in lieu of losing their pensions. what's DAL up to now? i don't know, but a lot less than 9,000. from what I hear now, the legacies have stopped hiring. they're not furloughing 30% of their seniority lists...

Yes, and in that time frame there were supposed to be hundreds of mandatory retirements at the legacies. Each legacy had dozens of scheduled retirements for every single month. Not any more. Now instead of just stagnation, we might see more furloughs instead. Thanks geezers.

hey, lots of us want the job at a major. the push for age 65 was in large part to the decimation of contracts/pensions in the wake of 9/11 (again, I would say its influence dominates age 65). but even if the geezers all wanted it, they can't change the rule. Congress did, and not to benefit the pilots. FAA wants to become more like ICAO, so Congress pushed it through.

maybe it's a good thing. Better to be hired early in the hiring wave than at the tail end....

 

[BLing]

I interviewed at Omni last month. One guy was retired Continental and the other was retired American. The ones that did leave the industry are comming back now. Not cool! Granted I was hired into the 757, but eventually turned them down. Some other qualified guy might not be so lucky next time...

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

I interviewed at Omni last month. One guy was retired Continental and the other was retired American. The ones that did leave the industry are comming back now. Not cool! Granted I was hired into the 757, but eventually turned them down. Some other qualified guy might not be so lucky next time...

60+ and putting up with 15 days around the world? Not what I want to be doing in my golden years, unless its drinking in first class.

 

[JustaNumber]

I would suggest the biggest 3 detriments to the piloting career recently would be: 1) the internet, 2) bankruptcy judges, and 3) the price of oil.

In the late 90's, airlines foolishly lost control of their pricing abilities by trying to circumvent travel agents, with the promotion of sites like orbitz and travelocity. It actually started allowing market competition for ticket prices, which overall is a good thing, but bad for pilot contracts that were based on previous profit margin models.

During the post 9/11 wave of bankruptcies, sympathetic judges allowed extremely weak companies to continue to survive, even giving them unfair competitive advantages. This led to a domino effect of all the other airlines practically being forced to slash compensation just to be able to compete and survive. I believe that had United and/or USAirways been allowed to fail, yes, many jobs would have been lost, but there wouldn't have been an oversupply of seats on the market, profit margins would have remained more stable, and the pilot career would have remained intact.

And finally, every time the airlines seem to have adjusted their operations to adapt to the latest market conditions, oil prices keep spiking. Not the airlines' fault, but we'll all pay for it. Blame the price of oil on either record world demand, speculators looking for a good bet after the housing market collapse, or Bush sucks, your choice.

Regardless of the reasons, this career has always been an unstable one, and always will be.

 

[bailout]

geez, when are you guys going to get it? 5 more years of income AT ANY PAY RATE, is far better than not. So you get delayed a few years, you're still going to get 'there', and for 5 years longer.

 

[BLing]

60+ and putting up with 15 days around the world? Not what I want to be doing in my golden years, unless its drinking in first class.

I think its a combo of poor finacial planning and not being able to spend everyday with the third skanky ex FA wife...

 

[Speedtape]

Age 65 will delay career progression for 5 years. couldn't the exact same thing occur via a merger, bankruptcy, recession? I would argue 9/11 and its effect on the oil markets have had a much longer/more wide-ranging effect on this industry than age 65. Besides, age 65 just passed, what, a few months ago?

Age 65 rule? Hmm, didn't every pilot get the same derived benefit from that change?

Pilot shortate? If there ever was one, it was short-lived! As each airline bankrupts, the available pilot pool grows!

 

[highsky]

I would suggest the biggest 3 detriments to the piloting career recently would be: 1) the internet, 2) bankruptcy judges, and 3) the price of oil.

In the late 90's, airlines foolishly lost control of their pricing abilities by trying to circumvent travel agents, with the promotion of sites like orbitz and travelocity. It actually started allowing market competition for ticket prices, which overall is a good thing, but bad for pilot contracts that were based on previous profit margin models.

During the post 9/11 wave of bankruptcies, sympathetic judges allowed extremely weak companies to continue to survive, even giving them unfair competitive advantages. This led to a domino effect of all the other airlines practically being forced to slash compensation just to be able to compete and survive. I believe that had United and/or USAirways been allowed to fail, yes, many jobs would have been lost, but there wouldn't have been an oversupply of seats on the market, profit margins would have remained more stable, and the pilot career would have remained intact.

And finally, every time the airlines seem to have adjusted their operations to adapt to the latest market conditions, oil prices keep spiking. Not the airlines' fault, but we'll all pay for it. Blame the price of oil on either record world demand, speculators looking for a good bet after the housing market collapse, or Bush sucks, your choice.

Regardless of the reasons, this career has always been an unstable one, and always will be.

Well said.

 

[shindler]

What r u talking about, if UAL were allowed to fail? They were denied any help from the govt. ATSB loan? Never got it. They got help from their employees!!!

 

[N2264J]

Re: All this bad news, on top of age 65

What r u talking about, if UAL were allowed to fail?

Tilton went public after United had been in bankruptcy for around 2 years and said he was using Chapter 11 as a "competitive strategy" while Delta, Continental and American were actually having to pay their bills.

My understanding is that bankruptcy was meant to be used for a 6 month to one year turn around - not a competitive strategy.

 

[PCL_128]

geez, when are you guys going to get it? 5 more years of income AT ANY PAY RATE, is far better than not. So you get delayed a few years, you're still going to get 'there', and for 5 years longer.

No, when are you going to get it: we don't want to work an extra five years!!!!

 

[rtmcfi]

geez, when are you guys going to get it? 5 more years of income AT ANY PAY RATE, is far better than not. So you get delayed a few years, you're still going to get 'there', and for 5 years longer.

Dear Simpleton,
Please research compound interest. You will find that you can retire early, with more money if 65 had not happened. I guess you are happy to work 5 more years, and have less money in your retirement?

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Age 65 will delay career progression for 5 years.

i really don't know if it will delay progression for a full 5 years, maybe a little bit.
For one thing, it's harder to keep a medical the older a pilot gets. All those years of flying crappy hours and heavy drinking on layovers :beer: take a toll on the body and eventually catch up with you later down the line. It's not for sure that all pilots can even keep a medical all the way to 65.
Just because the age has been bumped up to 65 doesn't automatically mean that every pilot even wants to continue past 60. I know that I'll be tired of living out of a suitcase by that time.

 

[jmreii]

Actually, the Bush administration has been the most detrimental factor in piloting careers over the past eight years.

I wonder what was the percentage of airline pilots that voted for the current administration. oh well the captain always goes down with the ship, and he usually takes the crew with him. good luck.