All this bad news, on top of age 65.

[jmreii]

I would suggest the biggest 3 detriments to the piloting career recently would be: 1) the internet, 2) bankruptcy judges, and 3) the price of oil.

In the late 90's, airlines foolishly lost control of their pricing abilities by trying to circumvent travel agents, with the promotion of sites like orbitz and travelocity. It actually started allowing market competition for ticket prices, which overall is a good thing, but bad for pilot contracts that were based on previous profit margin models.

During the post 9/11 wave of bankruptcies, sympathetic judges allowed extremely weak companies to continue to survive, even giving them unfair competitive advantages. This led to a domino effect of all the other airlines practically being forced to slash compensation just to be able to compete and survive. I believe that had United and/or USAirways been allowed to fail, yes, many jobs would have been lost, but there wouldn't have been an oversupply of seats on the market, profit margins would have remained more stable, and the pilot career would have remained intact.

And finally, every time the airlines seem to have adjusted their operations to adapt to the latest market conditions, oil prices keep spiking. Not the airlines' fault, but we'll all pay for it. Blame the price of oil on either record world demand, speculators looking for a good bet after the housing market collapse, or Bush sucks, your choice.

Regardless of the reasons, this career has always been an unstable one, and always will be.

I think you are on to something. yes it is bad to have one or two major airlines in the U.S. to fail, but the downside is all the rest of the airline industry slowly bleeding to death. pan am, eastern did not die overnight, it was more like 20 years for pan am and 15 years for eastern. may they rest in peace and no longer suffer.

 

[jmreii]

I would suggest the biggest 3 detriments to the piloting career recently would be: 1) the internet, 2) bankruptcy judges, and 3) the price of oil.

In the late 90's, airlines foolishly lost control of their pricing abilities by trying to circumvent travel agents, with the promotion of sites like orbitz and travelocity. It actually started allowing market competition for ticket prices, which overall is a good thing, but bad for pilot contracts that were based on previous profit margin models.

During the post 9/11 wave of bankruptcies, sympathetic judges allowed extremely weak companies to continue to survive, even giving them unfair competitive advantages. This led to a domino effect of all the other airlines practically being forced to slash compensation just to be able to compete and survive. I believe that had United and/or USAirways been allowed to fail, yes, many jobs would have been lost, but there wouldn't have been an oversupply of seats on the market, profit margins would have remained more stable, and the pilot career would have remained intact.

And finally, every time the airlines seem to have adjusted their operations to adapt to the latest market conditions, oil prices keep spiking. Not the airlines' fault, but we'll all pay for it. Blame the price of oil on either record world demand, speculators looking for a good bet after the housing market collapse, or Bush sucks, your choice.

Regardless of the reasons, this career has always been an unstable one, and always will be.

you are right, there will be no way to stop the bleeding of this industry. pan am and eastern took years to die. they were sick 20 and 15 years before they finally called it quits. the economy was not as bad as it is now, and fuel was not at 100 dollars a barrel for whatever reason.

 

[Hamburger]

Coupla thousand pilots on the street this week. I wonder if any of them supported the change so that tens of thousands of pilots can stagnate hiring for the next five years?

 

[Midnight Flyer]

hope that will slow down the hiring of the 200 hour wonderpilot for awhile.

 

[bailout]

Dear Simpleton,
Please research compound interest. You will find that you can retire early, with more money if 65 had not happened. I guess you are happy to work 5 more years, and have less money in your retirement?

not entirely true, but the issue here seems more like you guys dont want to work the extra 5 years. I can certainly understand that, but re read this thread when you're 50, divorced, 3 kids in college, or worse a sick child, etc.. THEN tell me you don't need to work an extra 5 years. (and NO, this is not about me,) but life will throw you curve balls, and the ABILITY to work and extra 5 years is a lifesaver for many. I like the idea of having a chioce thats all.

 

[RompXS4D]

Age 65 didn't screw anyone in my opinion. I just gained back 5 years over the 3 that I lost in salary due to 9/11. Plus it is a band-aid for all the United/US Air boys and pole dancers that lost their pensions.

 

[FO 4 Life]

Age 65 screwed everybody that wasn't already a captain.

2 35 year olds get hired 1 month apart. The first one upgrades in 10 years at 45. Poof, age 65 happens and now the next pilot doesn't make captain for 5 more years. The first pilot can have 20 years as captain versus 15 for the second pilot. That's 5 years lower income, less retirement, etc.

 

[Speedtape]

Age 65 screwed everybody that wasn't already a captain.

2 35 year olds get hired 1 month apart. The first one upgrades in 10 years at 45. Poof, age 65 happens and now the next pilot doesn't make captain for 5 more years. The first pilot can have 20 years as captain versus 15 for the second pilot. That's 5 years lower income, less retirement, etc.

Get over it! The world does not revolve around YOU! Maybe, if you find another occupation, you could help contribute to the pilot shortage and someone else who does not whine as much could move up a spot.

The Fact is: The law changed, and mandatory retirement is 65.

Your Opinion can be: It's the worst thing that ever happened in your career, or, get over the speed bump and take the extra 5 years that they just gave you also.

This is a DYNAMIC Industry, and THERE WILL BE WORSE THINGS THAT WILL HAPPEN DURING YOUR CAREER!

 

[Patriot328]

not entirely true, but the issue here seems more like you guys dont want to work the extra 5 years. I can certainly understand that, but re read this thread when you're 50, divorced, 3 kids in college, or worse a sick child, etc.. THEN tell me you don't need to work an extra 5 years. (and NO, this is not about me,) but life will throw you curve balls, and the ABILITY to work and extra 5 years is a lifesaver for many. I like the idea of having a chioce thats all.

The problem with your example is, unless you are already a captain when the law changes, you will make the same amount of money now, working until age 65, as you would have working until 60 under the old system.

So your 3 ex wives, sick kid, lost pension, doesn't matter. You're still going to have to work 5 more years for the same amount of money if you aren't already a captain.

 

[CitationUltra]

The effects of 9/11 are well behind us at this point. Face facts: age 65 is screwing over a lot of people at a lot of majors right now, not to mention the regional guys that can't move up.

Then why not discriminate even further and make the retirement age 50, so that these pilots that you for some reason believe are entitled to "move up" at the expense of someone else's career, can do so even earlier?