All Nwa Groups Now Have A Bullseye

[WillowRunVortex]

Willow.......you're back !!!!

I guess that Full House marathon must be over.........

As far as being terminated.......you can print out all my posts and give them to my Chief Pilot, ALPA, (not APLA), Officials, and anybody else you can think of. Nobody in either group really gives a $hit what I think anyway.

320AV8R

I would never do that. It's against the rules. That was kinda my point. It was a "wings" marathon not "Full House" by the way,,,thanks.

Talk about needing to get off the caffeine,

Anyway, why do you guys think you get such a hard time on here? Is it everyone else or is it your organization?

Pontificate that for awhile. (I hate that word)

You guys vote for your representation, dont try to duck and say it's them (ALPA) not us (line), (and you usually support NW ALPA in most of your comments)

You guys arent making any friends lately.

 

[320AV8R]

My pontification stems from the fact that ALPA at Continental made the same mistake in 1983 with the IAM. There were differing opionions between the union heads and a great deal of rancor. ALPA blew through the IAM picket line in August prior to the pilot strike and did not support the mechanics (or FA's).

So they told you to shove it. Get over it and deal with the larger and long term issue. Protecting yourselves through strength in numbers and a unified company wide workforce.

To late though, the ship has already sailed.

If you think this is amusing, you are going to be in for a real treat when Steenland takes aim at you guys. This book has already been written once. It is a shame no one cares to reread it.

Bman-

I am aware of the CAL situation.

I am also aware that NO OTHER NWA UNION supported AMFA. PFAA took a vote, that came back with OVER 90 PERCENT IN FAVOR OF GOING TO WORK.

I have stated MANY TIMES here, that ALPA tried to solidify all the unions, only to be rebuffed. It was over a year ago that it was "every man for himself". The F/As wouldn't pee on a pilot, if he was on fire, much less support us !!!

Do I agree with that ? No, but I have to live with it.

Am I ammused by all this ? No.

The guys conducting the Employee Jihad are mostly ex-Continental. They were there when the book was being written.

They will be after everyone, except themselves.

At least they have solidarity.

320AV8R

 

[Redmeat]

Bottom line for you Deli and the rest of NWA ALPA......You are looked to as the leaders as it relates to Unions at your airline....Had you chosen to HONOR amfa's position so to would have every other union on your property...A PEB would have convened against the wishes of your management and caused all of you to continue to work...the result of that decision would be that there would be no more 50,000.00 cleaners at your airline and your QUALIFIED mechanics would make less than they do now and NWA would not be preparing for bankruptcy and more importantly several years of union busting planning would have been destroyed probably causing a complete expulsion of your current mgmnt. ranks and bringing some hope to the people of NWA that a team with ability and vision and patience would be assembled to return NWA to some semblance of it's former self..........

But that did not happen, instead your MEC responded with a typical selfish and ego driven plan......We will not HONOR our mechanics position....of course with a lack of leadership on ALPA's part, all of the other unions fell in line and helped complete your ceo's master plan.....Replace the mechanics with scabs who will do what they are told, who will never organize in the future and will accept cuts to their meager pay and benefit plan in the future without a whimper.....knowing that ALPA will not help the flight attendants, cut there ranks by 50% and replace all foreign flying with cheap asian workers who culturally will always do what they are told.... when the remaining F?A's try to strike they will be locked out and replaced with all ready trained scabs who again will do as they are told and will also accept future pay and benefit cuts without a whimper and who will never organize as well........which leaves ALPA... not a problem for Steenland and company....drive the ship into the safe harbor of bankruptcy.....your precious pension will go like a fart in the wind followed by scope....that enables them to furlough another third of your pilot group and send that domestic connection to the emb170,s and 190,s that are now configured with first and business class as well as coach being flown by 2 pilots and 2 f/a's that when combined barely clear 100,00.00 for the year all with no pension and hardly any benefits to speak of... leaving ALPA with transcon positioning for international flying..... good deal for NWA but you guys will be doing it for 40% less than you do it now and career progression will be as stagnant as a good frog pond........Personally I could give rip about what happens to you guys now but I work for an airline that heavily code shares with you guys and has an AMFA unit. And thanks to your leaderships incredible short- sightedness, we will now all have to fight the same dang fight that you could have ended...our mgmnt goons will be drooling over Steenland like a god, trying to learn all they can about how to perfect the art of EGO and GREED...the difference will be that our alpa unit will honor what amfa or afa or any of the other unions choose to do as it concerns a legal strike......and one more thing.....no more riding in the cockpit for you guys when I am at work period and I am far from the only one who feels that way....you guys have brought shame upon your house now live with it..........

Never more true words spoke.

 

[320AV8R]

Maybe this will clear some things up...........then again.......

TO:​

​

​

​

Northwest Pilots
FROM: MEC Chairman Mark McClain
DATE: May 12, 2005​

NWA’S FINANCIAL SITUATION
​

Northwest Airlines recently reported a first quarter 2005 net loss of $458 million. News of another substantial oss was not unexpected since our company, along with the entire industry, continues to struggle. NWA’sunrestricted cash balance at the end of the quarter had dropped to $2.1 billion. Although this is not a dangerously low level of cash, our company cannot withstand sustained losses indefinitely.
Since fall of 2001, your union leadership has closely monitored NWA’s financial condition and developments in the industry. At its April 2003 meeting the MEC passed a resolution to work with other NWA employee groups and stakeholders to help ensure:
​

�� ​

that NWA’s long-term viability
​

�� ​

that NWA is an airline that can sustain future growth and job creation for NWA employees
​

�� ​

that NWA would have the ability to obtain longterm financing.

The MEC and its advisors determined that to help secure NWA’s future, sacrifices would be needed from all NWA stakeholders. Although NWA’s employees had not created the financial problems at our airline, they would have to be part of any viable solution.

Soon after the April 2003 MEC meeting, I met with representatives from the other NWA unions to discuss NWA’s financial condition and what needed to be done to secure our company’s long-term viability.

The other union leaders were at first very skeptical of our views on what was going to be required. I understood their reaction, having been resistant myself to the idea of acting voluntarily to cut costs.

What disturbed me, however, was that even after we shared our research and analysis that clearly identified NWA’s poor financial condition and outlook, some of the union leaders refused to set their emotions aside and face the facts before them. It quickly became evident that achieving a concerted effort like that achieved in 1992 would be difficult at best.

Due to a critical need to refinance NWA’s revolver debt and the unwillingness of the other major NWA unions to act voluntarily, NWA pilots took the first step on our own.

In November 2004, our pilot group ratified a two-year agreement that generates $300 million in annual cost savings and revenue enhancements from NWA pilots, management and salaried employees. The agreement helped facilitate refinancing of NWA’s revolver loan, an obligation that, if not properly addressed, could have triggered events leading to bankruptcy.

NWA pilots didn’t “jump in” too early or too late, but did what was necessary to help our company avoid a potentially lethal financial “land mine.” More challenges lie ahead, including the need to address upcoming pension-funding obligations.

The time has come for all union leaders to move beyond denial and anger and act responsibly for the good of their members. They must educate their membership on the reality of the current situation at NWA, what impact their members can and cannot have, and the potential consequences of inaction.​

 

[Redmeat]

----------------------------------------------------

 

[TonyC]

It was a "wings" marathon ...

So, how's Crystal Bernard lookin' these days?








.

 

[Redmeat]

Crystal Bernard, nice.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

So, how's Crystal Bernard lookin' these days?








.

I will say only this Tony. I would gladly quit flying the 80 for ownership in Sand Piper Air. She is HOT.

 

[tico]

Oooooh a threat.

First...you need to drink more decaf.

Second...do you have the ball$ to name your employer ? (I thought not).
I could contact our J/S chairman to remove your airline from our list. I'm sure you dont want to JS with a bunch of stupid NW pilots, now do you ?

320AV8R

320, it was not a threat.....And don't take it as such....It is a fact....and as far as... ah never mind.....It is not going to make a diff. with you guys anyway....the facts are the facts and they are undisputed and if unionism survives at NWA ( which is doubtful) it certainly won't be as a result of NWA ALPA's efforts..... I certainly hope Duane W. hangs down his head in shame and resigns from national office over this......what a shame

 

[dbrownie]

Personally I could give rip about what happens to you guys now but I work for an airline that heavily code shares with you guys and has an AMFA unit. And thanks to your leaderships incredible short- sightedness, we will now all have to fight the same dang fight that you could have ended...our mgmnt goons will be drooling over Steenland like a god, trying to learn all they can about how to perfect the art of EGO and GREED...the difference will be that our alpa unit will honor what amfa or afa or any of the other unions choose to do as it concerns a legal strike......and one more thing.....no more riding in the cockpit for you guys when I am at work period and I am far from the only one who feels that way....you guys have brought shame upon your house now live with it..........

Tico,

It is easy to blame everyone else for the "fight you now have to fight".

I think steenland is just dressing the pig for bancruptcy, he could give a shi# about any of these groups.

You think eveything will be different at your company when you guys have to deal with this crap. Good luck. You will see peoples' true colors when their jobs are threatened. I was here when we went on strike last time. It was ugly and other unions didn't do squat. Many got lot's of OT working on jets. So please spare us.

If you want to deny getting guys to work why don't you give us the name of your company and we will help get you removed from our approved list.

Dave B

 

[Superpilot92]

Raise Ticket prices not cut jobs and pay. Mgmt sucks.

 

[Yank McCobb]

If you want to deny getting guys to work why don't you give us the name of your company and we will help get you removed from our approved list.

Dave B

Since all this guy does is b!tch, moan and TALK about what he is going to do, but never actually DOES anything (just like his buddy ferlo...if they are indeed different guys), he probably isn't going to follow through with any of his big talk, threats or "facts".

But if he should, lets just say their planes have eskimos on the tail. It shouldn't be too hard to contact their jumpseat coordinator and do whatever you choose to do.

 

[dbrownie]

But if he should, lets just say their planes have eskimos on the tail. It shouldn't be too hard to contact their jumpseat coordinator and do whatever you choose to do.

If that's the case it should not be a problem because we have a good relationship with that group. We have individual idiots here also who think their opinion is the norm.

It is real easy to bitch and moan and do nothing. I guess this board is good for that!!!

Dave B

 

[tico]

Since all this guy does is b!tch, moan and TALK about what he is going to do, but never actually DOES anything (just like his buddy ferlo...if they are indeed different guys), he probably isn't going to follow through with any of his big talk, threats or "facts".

But if he should, lets just say their planes have eskimos on the tail. It shouldn't be too hard to contact their jumpseat coordinator and do whatever you choose to do.

At least the guys at your ex-airline never would have done what the NWA guys have done Yank..........How else should one let a group know of their displeasure with how that group is conducting themselves than to tell it to their face.......seems proper to me and as far as this crap about taking out on poor guys trying to go to work.......maybe instead fo crying about it they will start asking questions of their own MEC and demand truthful answers...something I can not do.......

 

[TonyC]

I will say only this Tony. I would gladly quit flying the 80 for ownership in Sand Piper Air. She is HOT.

I hate to break this to you, but they're fifteen-year old re-runs. I don't know about "hot," but I'll admit she was cute. Even so, she has aged a bit.




.

 

[Deli Guy]

Hey Redmeat,

quote by redmeat
If you agree that a NW cleaner should make what the average LCC cleaner makes, or that a NW mechanic should make what the average LCC mechanic makes, then by that rational you must believe that a NW pilot should make what the average LCC pilot makes. Correct?

Actually, I think that a NW cleaner should get what he can negotiate. He should look at what power he has at the time, (ie what does NW mgmt want from him vs. what does he have to offer mgmt.) and give it hell. Sadly, the cleaners don't (didn't)have much to offer NWA management that they can not go out and take. I think the pilots are in a different situation. We are still only worth what we can negotiate. Do not get me wrong, I do not think we are in an easy situation. I think there will be pain. I think ALPA is our best shot. They are not perfect, but I am glad they are there.

 

[Deli Guy]

quote by tico
Bottom line for you Deli and the rest of NWA ALPA......You are looked to as the leaders as it relates to Unions at your airline....Had you chosen to HONOR amfa's position so to would have every other union on your property...A PEB would have convened against the wishes of your management and caused all of you to continue to work...the result of that decision would be that there would be no more 50,000.00 cleaners at your airline and your QUALIFIED mechanics would make less than they do now and NWA would not be preparing for bankruptcy and more importantly several years of union busting planning would have been destroyed probably causing a complete expulsion of your current mgmnt. ranks and bringing some hope to the people of NWA that a team with ability and vision and patience would be assembled to return NWA to some semblance of it's former self..........

But that did not happen, instead your MEC responded with a typical selfish and ego driven plan......We will not HONOR our mechanics position....of course with a lack of leadership on ALPA's part, all of the other unions fell in line and helped complete your ceo's master plan.....Replace the mechanics with scabs who will do what they are told, who will never organize in the future and will accept cuts to their meager pay and benefit plan in the future without a whimper.....knowing that ALPA will not help the flight attendants, cut there ranks by 50% and replace all foreign flying with cheap asian workers who culturally will always do what they are told.... when the remaining F?A's try to strike they will be locked out and replaced with all ready trained scabs who again will do as they are told and will also accept future pay and benefit cuts without a whimper and who will never organize as well........which leaves ALPA... not a problem for Steenland and company....drive the ship into the safe harbor of bankruptcy.....your precious pension will go like a fart in the wind followed by scope....that enables them to furlough another third of your pilot group and send that domestic connection to the emb170,s and 190,s that are now configured with first and business class as well as coach being flown by 2 pilots and 2 f/a's that when combined barely clear 100,00.00 for the year all with no pension and hardly any benefits to speak of... leaving ALPA with transcon positioning for international flying..... good deal for NWA but you guys will be doing it for 40% less than you do it now and career progression will be as stagnant as a good frog pond........Personally I could give rip about what happens to you guys now but I work for an airline that heavily code shares with you guys and has an AMFA unit. And thanks to your leaderships incredible short- sightedness, we will now all have to fight the same dang fight that you could have ended...our mgmnt goons will be drooling over Steenland like a god, trying to learn all they can about how to perfect the art of EGO and GREED...the difference will be that our alpa unit will honor what amfa or afa or any of the other unions choose to do as it concerns a legal strike......and one more thing.....no more riding in the cockpit for you guys when I am at work period and I am far from the only one who feels that way....you guys have brought shame upon your house now live with it..........

Hey Tico,
Our mech's union leadership was on drugs. Alpa told them so. Their position was unsupportable and damaging to an overall better plan. It was NW ALPA'S view that a PEB would not occour. It was one of many things that ALPA soul searched over. Who are you and why should I consider your statement that GWB would have put a PEB in place? Are you on his staff? No, you are just another guy with an opinion just like me. Do not throw around unsupportable facts to pump up your argument.
We are still in a position to bring on the strike that will bring about all your other scenarios. I call them scenarios because they are just that. They are not factual "done deals" My son goes off onto flights of fantasy like you do. Many times I need to reel him in. The FA's are in a better position than the mechanics. They actually can shut down the airline and all that you envision may occour ayway. AMFA had no weapon that mgmt was afraid of. The split between AMFA and ALPA occoured about 2 years ago when it was apparent AMFA was whacked. The FA's are still in a position to integrate a plan with ALPA and the IAM. Now that they have witnessed the rape and murder of AMFA, I think they will see the wisdom of a 93' style coordinated effort. (By the way, do you remember the success story by NW Alpa in 93'? These are the same guys. Give them credit but remember they are human)
Is your airline Continental? If so, this current slide in our industry could be attributed to your companies MEC for taking in the SCABS from EAL. Is your company Delta? Then how about your proud companies culpability in introducing RJ'S into this industry? Are you Air France? Then....well...your French. The point is--all our code share partners pilots groups have something that led "us" (meaning us as pilots) to our current condition.
Steenland is just slightly more of a prick than your guys are. If it wasn't Steenland, it would be your guys. This is something that is going to happen and must be faced by pilots at legacy carriers and it just happens to be us. I am putting my belief in NWAALPA because they actually have a track record to point to.
Yeah, your management is going to try it on you if it works. Our management got the idea by looking at the LCCs/regionals and pointing to that as the state of the industry. How are you going to stop the LCCs? There is no union there. Are you going to kick them out of your jumpseat? No more Jetblue? How about the RJ drivers? Oh yeah, they are just doing their job. How about you try this TICO.... how about withholding your jumpseat from NW pilots after we have our at bats. Why do you not research the situation between AMFA and ALPA before you go condeming us. It does not sound like this will work, because your "flight of fantasy" kind of tags you as a guy who gets spun up without a bunch of fact--and since that is the case, I do not want your jump seat because you scare me.

 

[Deli Guy]

quote by scabseeker
I thought lazy people didn't work at all but now you are calling trash cleaners lazy? That is pretty dciked up. What do you think places would look like without cleaners?

Hey Scabseeker,
You got me there, I just never really thought about what a place would look like if no one cleaned up. I mean, its like a whole new world just opened up to me. I asked my butler not to clean for a day, and you couldn't believe the clutter! I gave the gardeners and the maids the day off and, sure enough, the place really collected dust bunnies. And I am now sure that the trash cleaners were never really lazy, and that they just attended a specalized technical school concentrating on the many techniques involved with custodial duties. Fortified with that education, they just make it "look easy". I apologize for being "dciked up" and will try and be more in touch with my fellow man.

 

[Deli Guy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deli Guy
P.S. If I do get furloughed from my pilot job, can I come live in your fantasy world where the starting pay for unskilled work starts at $51,000 plus bennies?
quote by FN FAL
I could set you up with something like that, but you'd have to be willing to learn how to produce something.

Hey FN FAL,
Thanks for the offer. How could you have had the clarvoyance to know that just now, I was thinking what a worthless drain on humanity I really am? How I have produced nothing with my two bare hands? How all I know how to do is connect the autopilot and then flare when the other guy screams for me to do so? Please be my new spiritual and financial leader so that I may be more like you.

 

[gern_blanston]

Go, Deli Guy! You are on a roll!