Airtran??

[PCL_128]

Looking for some info on Airtran. I know you guys just voted down the last proposal (good for you) and that shows unity. How is life there, pay, QOL, moral, equipment and so on. Please, just Citrus pilots who have have something constructive to say good or bad. Thanks 124

As someone who lives in base, life is pretty good. Like Lear, I took a sizable paycut to come here from Pinnacle, but the increase in QOL, even as a reserve pilot, has been worth it. For the commuters on reserve, it's probably a different story since we lost the ability to drop reserve days. They end up spending time in a crashpad for a big chunk of the month, especially since reserve FOs just aren't flying that much right now. Reserve is running around 6-8 months for 717 FOs, not sure about 737. Figure a few extra months of build-up lines after that before holding a hard line.

I'm expecting anywhere from 4-6 years for upgrade. At current FO payrates, that wouldn't be fun, but we should have a new TA within the next couple of years that will boost the FO rates. Captain rates are already at about industry-standard for SNB equipment, so the next TA should boost those to pretty good rates also.

I disagree with Lear about preferring CAL, NWA, or UAL over here. CAL has just hired too many people already. Seems like a big furlough-fodder risk there. NWA is just an absolutely miserable company. I can't imagine putting myself through a few decades of misery at that place. UAL just scares me with the talk of mergers and financial issues. Doesn't seem like a stable place to be. If you live in any of their bases, though, then it would definitely be preferred. Living in base is always the top priority in my mind.

Basically, most of the people here are great to fly with, the stews are younger and not pissed off all the time, you get a decent amount of time off, and the pay will probably be improving. With the new union leadership, I think this is a great place to go with a good future.

 

[PCL_128]

Don't forget there were some first year FOs that also sold us down the river. Wanting a bigger raise their second year. Very short sighted.

I don't know of any. This first year FO voted NO!!!

 

[jke406]

OK, this has to be asked since no one else has: if DAL is hiring heavily, why would anyone willing to fly out of ATL prefer to work for Tranny?

 

[jneely]

OK, this has to be asked since no one else has: if DAL is hiring heavily, why would anyone willing to fly out of ATL prefer to work for Tranny?

Delta Exec Says Carrier Cutting Costs
Tuesday December 4, 2:44 pm ET
By Harry R. Weber, AP Business Writer Delta President Says Airline Cuts Costs to Offset Fuel Prices

ATLANTA (AP) -- A Delta Air Lines Inc. executive said Tuesday the nation's No. 3 carrier is freezing hiring in certain areas as part of a cost-cutting move aimed at dealing with high fuel prices that will weaken the company's fourth-quarter results.
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Delta shares fell nearly 5 percent in afternoon trading. Shares of several other major carriers also fell.
President and Chief Financial Officer Ed Bastian said at the Calyon Securities U.S. Airline Conference in New York that high fuel costs will "dampen" Delta's operating margin -- the ratio of operating income to sales revenue, expressed as a percentage -- in the quarter ending Dec. 31.
He said Delta's current projection for operating margin is flat to minus 2 percent. Previously, the company projected an operating margin of 3 percent to 5 percent for the quarter. For all of 2007, Bastian said Delta is still projecting an operating margin of around 6 percent.
The company did not provide any updated profit, sales or earnings per share projections for the fourth quarter.
Delta shares fell 93 cents, or 4.8 percent, to $18.65 in afternoon trading Tuesday. Standard & Poor's reiterated its hold rating on Delta's stock.
Cost cuts will be key to helping Delta deal with higher fuel prices, Bastian said, noting that jet fuel prices are up nearly 50 percent since the beginning of 2007. He suggested there could be job cuts, but he didn't offer any numbers or specifics.
Bastian said Delta will cancel or reduce flying of some aircraft. Capacity for 2008 is expected to still be up 2 percent, reflecting a decline in domestic capacity of 4 percent to 5 percent and an increase in international capacity of 15 percent, Bastian said. By 2009, Bastian said, 40 percent of Delta's flying will be on the international side.
Delta has initiated a hiring freeze on any non-customer facing positions. It also wants to improve self-service kiosk options for customers and increase the number of people buying tickets online, Bastian said.
Delta is still evaluating whether to sell any noncore assets, including regional feeder carrier Comair Inc., Bastian said. No decision on Comair has been made, he said.
Meanwhile, Bastian offered little insight into whether Delta will combine with another airline.
Bastian said that the board of the Atlanta-based company is still evaluating whether to enter into a deal.
Bastian said the value to shareholders of remaining a standalone carrier versus a combination are being considered. He did not say when the review would be complete, and analysts at the conference did not ask him to elaborate.
Amid increased speculation about industry consolidation and Delta's possible role in it, two of the airline's executives have left in the last three weeks: vice president of operations Joe Kolshak and vice president of corporate communications Jeff Battcher.
Delta has said Bastian would keep his dual role of president and CFO instead of the airline hiring a separate CFO.
Last month, Delta denied reports that it was talking to UAL Corp.'s United Airlines about a combination. Since then, it has said little about the issue, and United's top executive recently refused to fully address the issue.



hows that for an answer. jeff neely.

 

[PCL_128]

OK, this has to be asked since no one else has: if DAL is hiring heavily, why would anyone willing to fly out of ATL prefer to work for Tranny?

Depends on what you want to do. If short-haul domestic is your kind of flying, then the schedules at AirTran on the 717 are typically better than the -88 schedules at DAL. If you want to fly widebodies or international, then go to DAL. Personally, I couldn't stand the idea of sitting in a cockpit for 16 hours going from JFK to Mumbai in a 777, but to each his own.

 

[jke406]

Depends on what you want to do. If short-haul domestic is your kind of flying, then the schedules at AirTran on the 717 are typically better than the -88 schedules at DAL. If you want to fly widebodies or international, then go to DAL. Personally, I couldn't stand the idea of sitting in a cockpit for 16 hours going from JFK to Mumbai in a 777, but to each his own.

Fair enough...

 

[jke406]

hows that for an answer. jeff neely.

every airline is dealing with higher fuel prices and a softening of domestic market. it would appear that a company concentrating almost exclusively on domestic flying (air tran) is in worse shape than one that's diversified.

so I guess I'd have to say that's not much of an answer at all.

 

[PCL_128]

it would appear that a company concentrating almost exclusively on domestic flying (air tran) is in worse shape than one that's diversified.

I doubt it. We have the lowest seat-mile costs in the business, so I doubt we're in any more trouble than anyone else.

 

[jke406]

I doubt it. We have the lowest seat-mile costs in the business, so I doubt we're in any more trouble than anyone else.

true, but...
low seat mile cost = low salary

 

[jneely]

my point was they are talking about hiring freezes and job cuts less than a year out of bankruptcy. whether that is pilots remains to be be seen.
jeff neely

 

[PCL_128]

true, but...
low seat mile cost = low salary

Not really. Pilot costs make up a tiny fraction of a penny in total airline seat-mile costs. SWA is a perfect example of this. They have the highest paid SNB pilots in the country, but their seat-mile costs are always within a fraction of a penny of ours.

 

[jke406]

Not really. Pilot costs make up a tiny fraction of a penny in total airline seat-mile costs. SWA is a perfect example of this. They have the highest paid SNB pilots in the country, but their seat-mile costs are always within a fraction of a penny of ours.

ok...then I have to ask, why are air tran's salaries so much lower?

 

[PCL_128]

then why are air tran's salaries so much lower?

We'll have a new TA within the next couple of years with sizable raises, and you'll see that the seat-mile costs barely move. It's all about the rest of the operation. Pilot costs are just a very small part of company costs.

 

[ForgedBlade]

Depends on what you want to do. If short-haul domestic is your kind of flying, then the schedules at AirTran on the 717 are typically better than the -88 schedules at DAL. If you want to fly widebodies or international, then go to DAL. Personally, I couldn't stand the idea of sitting in a cockpit for 16 hours going from JFK to Mumbai in a 777, but to each his own.

Then why take the pay cuts to go from one 'regional' to a slightly bigger 'regional'?

Who says we are in the cockpit for 16 hours, that what bunks are for. They don't call it 'dozing-for-dollars' for nothing!

 

[Lear70]

ok...then I have to ask, why are air tran's salaries so much lower?

Because Southwest pilots negotiated them. Not to mention they have a much more "employee-friendly" management team who recognizes the worth of the employees to the bottom line.

AirTran... not so much.

We'll have to negotiate it, it's that simple, yet that hard. It doesn't have anything to do with cost structure, except that it would reduce management bonuses. You could DOUBLE our pay and only increase CASM by about half a penny, still just about the lowest in the industry.

 

[jke406]

lowest per-mile cost in the industry and one of the lowest pay rates...even though better pay won't really increase per-mile costs?

something doesn't add up.

when's the strike?

 

[twepilot]

whats the % increase in cost when we're talking a half penny increase salary with an overall casm of 6.xx? I'm getting an increase of approx 8.5% off the top of my head.

RV

 

[twepilot]

my point from above is a half penny is huge when your only talking in the neighborhod of 6 pennies total...

RV

 

[Lear70]

That's true enough.

DOUBLE our salaries would be an 8.375% increase from the last quarter's 10k CASM, but we're not really asking for that.

A 25% INITIAL increase in F/O salary, plus an 8-10% INITIAL increase in CA's salary, COLA and longevity increases of 4% per year, keep the reserve rules, harder rules for the scheduling section, plus better hotel language, an increased 401(k) / B fund contribution, would be another 10%, for a total of a 25-30% increase in total compensation.

That's approximately a 3% increase in total CASM to give us a contract worth working under for the next 5-7 years.

I don't mind asking for that, nor should anyone else. These are numbers that are derived directly off ALPA EF&A numbers (I'm hoping the current NPA leadership doesn't get p*ssed about the discussion given it's something covered under the non-disclosure agreement I signed for negotiations), but it's numbers every pilot here needs to understand.

What we're asking for is NOT unreasonable. What doesn't add up is management's loathing to give us what equates to almost a $100 Million bump in pay and quality of life items over 5-7 years. They'll have to raise fares slightly (less than $5 per ticket) to cover it.

Too bad. The cost of everything goes up. Fuel goes up. Leases go up. Labor goes up. That's the way life is. They know it, they're just trying to minimize it.

 

[maxblast72]

lowest per-mile cost in the industry and one of the lowest pay rates...even though better pay won't really increase per-mile costs?

I don't know about lowest pay. From what I am hearing from the guys in my upgrade class (Nov 2006), the average 2007 paycheck for us 2004 hires is about $130 K ($140 K is you include B-fund). Show me another airline other than Southwest where 2004 hires are making $130 K. Airtran's not the best deal out there but definitely not the worst.