Airtran??

[PCL_128]

true, but...
low seat mile cost = low salary

Not really. Pilot costs make up a tiny fraction of a penny in total airline seat-mile costs. SWA is a perfect example of this. They have the highest paid SNB pilots in the country, but their seat-mile costs are always within a fraction of a penny of ours.

 

[jke406]

Not really. Pilot costs make up a tiny fraction of a penny in total airline seat-mile costs. SWA is a perfect example of this. They have the highest paid SNB pilots in the country, but their seat-mile costs are always within a fraction of a penny of ours.

ok...then I have to ask, why are air tran's salaries so much lower?

 

[PCL_128]

then why are air tran's salaries so much lower?

We'll have a new TA within the next couple of years with sizable raises, and you'll see that the seat-mile costs barely move. It's all about the rest of the operation. Pilot costs are just a very small part of company costs.

 

[ForgedBlade]

Depends on what you want to do. If short-haul domestic is your kind of flying, then the schedules at AirTran on the 717 are typically better than the -88 schedules at DAL. If you want to fly widebodies or international, then go to DAL. Personally, I couldn't stand the idea of sitting in a cockpit for 16 hours going from JFK to Mumbai in a 777, but to each his own.

Then why take the pay cuts to go from one 'regional' to a slightly bigger 'regional'?

Who says we are in the cockpit for 16 hours, that what bunks are for. They don't call it 'dozing-for-dollars' for nothing!

 

[Lear70]

ok...then I have to ask, why are air tran's salaries so much lower?

Because Southwest pilots negotiated them. Not to mention they have a much more "employee-friendly" management team who recognizes the worth of the employees to the bottom line.

AirTran... not so much.

We'll have to negotiate it, it's that simple, yet that hard. It doesn't have anything to do with cost structure, except that it would reduce management bonuses. You could DOUBLE our pay and only increase CASM by about half a penny, still just about the lowest in the industry.

 

[jke406]

lowest per-mile cost in the industry and one of the lowest pay rates...even though better pay won't really increase per-mile costs?

something doesn't add up.

when's the strike?

 

[twepilot]

whats the % increase in cost when we're talking a half penny increase salary with an overall casm of 6.xx? I'm getting an increase of approx 8.5% off the top of my head.

RV

 

[twepilot]

my point from above is a half penny is huge when your only talking in the neighborhod of 6 pennies total...

RV

 

[Lear70]

That's true enough.

DOUBLE our salaries would be an 8.375% increase from the last quarter's 10k CASM, but we're not really asking for that.

A 25% INITIAL increase in F/O salary, plus an 8-10% INITIAL increase in CA's salary, COLA and longevity increases of 4% per year, keep the reserve rules, harder rules for the scheduling section, plus better hotel language, an increased 401(k) / B fund contribution, would be another 10%, for a total of a 25-30% increase in total compensation.

That's approximately a 3% increase in total CASM to give us a contract worth working under for the next 5-7 years.

I don't mind asking for that, nor should anyone else. These are numbers that are derived directly off ALPA EF&A numbers (I'm hoping the current NPA leadership doesn't get p*ssed about the discussion given it's something covered under the non-disclosure agreement I signed for negotiations), but it's numbers every pilot here needs to understand.

What we're asking for is NOT unreasonable. What doesn't add up is management's loathing to give us what equates to almost a $100 Million bump in pay and quality of life items over 5-7 years. They'll have to raise fares slightly (less than $5 per ticket) to cover it.

Too bad. The cost of everything goes up. Fuel goes up. Leases go up. Labor goes up. That's the way life is. They know it, they're just trying to minimize it.

 

[maxblast72]

lowest per-mile cost in the industry and one of the lowest pay rates...even though better pay won't really increase per-mile costs?

I don't know about lowest pay. From what I am hearing from the guys in my upgrade class (Nov 2006), the average 2007 paycheck for us 2004 hires is about $130 K ($140 K is you include B-fund). Show me another airline other than Southwest where 2004 hires are making $130 K. Airtran's not the best deal out there but definitely not the worst.