AirTran to Sell two more planes; tougher union talks ahead?

[scarlet]

Where was this press release??

 

[FlyWolf]

Good luck in your negotiations guys, I will be the first to come walk the line in support (hey, there are at least 12 MKE-ATL flights between Midwest and AirTran per day) I think we are watching your negotiations very close because ours will start soon.

Stay strong.

 

[Andy]

Where was this press release??

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/business_tourism_aviation/2008/03/airtran-to-sell.html

http://startelegram.typepad.com/sky_talk/2008/03/airtran-also-cu.html

I don't think that these aircraft were sold due to union negotiations; it looks like they've been trimming growth estimates in the last couple of weeks. It'll be interesting to see Feb's load factors.

 

[Ty Webb]

Jeez you air tran guys are angry. Lemme see, didn't your company used to be called, value jet? Get over yourself tough guy.

Hmm . . . . I don't know. Maybe you should ask one of the dozens of "retired" former Delta captains that work here now.

I've flown with quite a few of them . . . they're mostly former 76ER Check Airmen. Great guys- obviously, you're nothing like them.

 

[Eagle757shark]

What's more, Fornaro said off-the-charts oil prices -- which he said have climbed past $100 a barrel -- could also impact AirTran's protracted negotiations with its pilots union. The two sides have been negotiating a new deal for nearly two years.
The pilots union rejected AirTran's latest offer last fall. But Fornaro said AirTran may not make a better offer -- or even a similar one -- given today's oil prices.
"I would say right now I'm not sure we would put that agreement back on the table. That was a $65-a-barrel agreement and that's not where we are," he said. "We're taking a fresh eye as to what we're going to put on the table."

Andy, this is what has upset so many pilots at AirTran. AirTran changed the CEO and new union leadership was elected. There was hope that this would lead to a fresh start and possibly a better relationship between management and the union. Negotiations have not even begun under our new leadership yet and the company is already firing a shot across the bow. If AirTran needs to slow growth or sell airplanes to make the company stronger, then that is what needs to be done. However, when this pilot group works as hard as it does to make this airline the very best, and the CEO fires a shot at our union like this, it will just change the morale of this pilot group. These people communicate with us like we are idiots. Hell we all know fuel is over $100 dollars a barrel. We all understand the country is on the verge of a recession. Every time I go to the gas station or run to the grocery store I get a economics lesson. The majority of AirTran pilots are college educated and have been with other airlines. AirTran pilots want to be compensated and rewarded for the millions of dollars they save AirTran. Negotiate behind closed doors through the negotiators not in the media.

 

[Andy]

Andy, this is what has upset so many pilots at AirTran. AirTran changed the CEO and new union leadership was elected. There was hope that this would lead to a fresh start and possibly a better relationship between management and the union. Negotiations have not even begun under our new leadership yet and the company is already firing a shot across the bow. If AirTran needs to slow growth or sell airplanes to make the company stronger, then that is what needs to be done. However, when this pilot group works as hard as it does to make this airline the very best, and the CEO fires a shot at our union like this, it will just change the morale of this pilot group. These people communicate with us like we are idiots. Hell we all know fuel is over $100 dollars a barrel. We all understand the country is on the verge of a recession. Every time I go to the gas station or run to the grocery store I get a economics lesson. The majority of AirTran pilots are college educated and have been with other airlines. AirTran pilots want to be compensated and rewarded for the millions of dollars they save AirTran. Negotiate behind closed doors through the negotiators not in the media.

I agree; the comment about pilot contract negotiations was unneccessary.
He's taken two unrelated events and linked them together.

 

[maxblast72]

You been doing surveys on your layovers? And who (dare I ask) is the "hardest"?

Sorry, I left one word out. Guess I need to proof read more often.

I was just quoting our union president who has the stated that we are the second hardest working pilot group (Southwest #1) in term of block hours flown per year. Now if we could just get the same number of days off per month as Southwest.

 

[Clyde Frog]

operationally, airtran looks pretty good. it might be time for that to change!

 

[maxblast72]

What the hell have you been smoking?

Take a look at junior Captain pay and think again. Our junior Captains are the lowest paid 737/A320 Captains of any similar-size airline (or larger).

Don't forget, Cletus, that many of us Captains voted down a substantial pay raise- in part, because the TA would have screwed the junior guys.

Not smoking anything. I am just saying TA1 and TA2 were much more favorable to Captains than First Officers. Although I know some Captains voted no on the TA, I would bet that about 90% of the pilots over 6 years voted yes and 90% of the pilots less than 6 years voted no. I would love to see the results broken down by seniority. I think the work should be done on FO compensation first and then worry about Captains instead of vice versa like AP and SH did last year.

As for the Junior Captain pay, there are two sides to the arguement. I have a buddy that I flew with at a previous airline that left for Frontier one week before I left to come to Airtran in early 2004. I would take my situation and pay before his any day of the week. I would take my situation over a pilot hired in 2004 at any other airline except Fedex, UPS, or Southwest. I don't subscibe to the philosophy that the grass is always greener somewhere else.

Am I suggestion that we take concessions, no way. We are doing a very good job keeping Airtran profitable over the past 8 years and need to share in the profits (I am a big fan of a profit sharing program).

I am just waiting to see if people will view flying as a necessity and pay these higher ticket prices as they pay higher prices for all the other necessities in life. I just hope people have become so used to air travel that they consider travel a necesssity and don't reduce their traveling.

 

[Lear70]

Andy, this is what has upset so many pilots at AirTran. AirTran changed the CEO and new union leadership was elected. There was hope that this would lead to a fresh start and possibly a better relationship between management and the union. Negotiations have not even begun under our new leadership yet and the company is already firing a shot across the bow. If AirTran needs to slow growth or sell airplanes to make the company stronger, then that is what needs to be done. However, when this pilot group works as hard as it does to make this airline the very best, and the CEO fires a shot at our union like this, it will just change the morale of this pilot group. These people communicate with us like we are idiots. Hell we all know fuel is over $100 dollars a barrel. We all understand the country is on the verge of a recession. Every time I go to the gas station or run to the grocery store I get a economics lesson. The majority of AirTran pilots are college educated and have been with other airlines. AirTran pilots want to be compensated and rewarded for the millions of dollars they save AirTran. Negotiate behind closed doors through the negotiators not in the media.

What he's doing is union-busting 101, in the "managing expectations" category.

They're coming to the table, and this is their way of telling the pilots that they shouldn't expect anything and SHOULD be grateful just to get the LAFO #2 back.

They just don't get it.

We warned them in negotiations that selling out the junior pilots (new-hire pay cut and f/o's not even COLA) plus the scope cuts would equal a NO vote.

They didn't listen.

Similarly, they're being told that bringing another substandard T.A. to the table (and even the vaguest ATTEMPT to bring LESS than they brought last time) will only anger the pilot group.

I don't expect them to listen.

They have their own belief system in Orlando. Reality hasn't set in that the pilots of airTran are planning on staying here for a CAREER and will fight to make it a CAREER and not just a "quick upgrade" (which isn't going to happen).

No one's asking for SWA plus 1% (at least most of us aren't), but something's wrong when a company that has been consistently profitable for almost a decade during the worst downturn in aviation history can't even give current book + COLA and the executives have been gaining double-digits in compensation every year.

Something's wrong with this picture, and I'm glad to see the AAI pilots riled up about it. In fact, thanks, Bob, for helping get people fired up again. I was worried about complacency setting back in again. I appreciate your support, way to go, Bob!