AirTran TA2

[sabregirl]

I have a question.

Would any of you who work at AirTran start working there today if you were to do it all over again, even though the contract is in limbo?

Thanks!

 

[Lear70]

Lear 70 thanks for an educated response and all your helpful research. i re-iterate that i am in the research stage and once i have been educated by as many sources, i will make my vote.

Absolutely. I hope you will decide on a NO vote, but respect your efforts to at least educate yourself on the beliefs and ideas presented by both sides of the issue.

I almost forgot, had to add the salary comparison chart to my web page so you could see where I derived the "industry average" line from on the charts and double-check the numbers and math.

Don't want anyone to say I was using "fuzzy math".

http://home.earthlink.net/~lear70/Industry_Average_Computation.pdf

Sabregirl, that's a good question. I would say Yes, not having the contract changed YET, simply because even though I took a nearly 50% pay cut to come here, my quality of life (days off, commutable trips, ability to trade/swap/drop trips) is drastically better than it was at Pinnacle.

The problem is career expectancies are NOT what I signed on for (2-3 year upgrades), which is the big question mark. If this thing goes through in its current form (I doubt it, but it's possible), reserve will be pure hell and F/O wages will not put me back to what I *would* have made by staying put at PCL until either year 7 F/O pay or when I upgrade, around year 4-5 currently projected.

Don't have a crystal ball, but I imagine some people might choose to wait it out at their regional with all the other majors hiring and our future so uncertain here...

 

[Homer Jay]

I have a question.

Would any of you who work at AirTran start working there today if you were to do it all over again, even though the contract is in limbo?

Thanks!

Excellent question as I have an interview next month. I have to be honest, I don't have a really good feeling about what's going on over there...

 

[Lear70]

Another concession just came up. 100-seat jet rates as they apply to future airplane rate discussions.

Current book requires the company to pick a CATEGORY for a new airplane, specifically SNB, LNB, or WB for pay computation of the new airframe.

This works in our favor by giving them only 3 options to put RJ's on property with us operating them, with the cheapest being our EXISTING 717/737 pay rates.

When I was in D.C. and we were trying to get the 100 seat jet rates removed, this came up and I very SPECIFICALLY explained to Allen and the NC WHY it was critical to leave that sentence alone (the company wasn't present when we discussed this). The last time we discussed it in negotiating session, this paragraph had not been touched.

NOW they've changed it. New T.A. Section 4.C.2.d, which now, instead of negotiating on a "category", they negotiate on a specific "rate", or it goes to Arbitration.

This is a HUGE concession, and paves the way for us to get 100-seat RJ's on property at 100-seat rates the regionals are flying them for, rather than having our lowest POSSIBLE rate at our CURRENT pay.

When all of you go to the road shows, I certainly hope you accord them the level of animosity they deserve at this point.

Complete and total incompetency, failure to achieve ANY stated goals, and failure to represent the pilots in ANY meaningful way, either in negotiations, grievances, or side letters.

Oh I'm PISSED!!

 

[EMBATP]

once again...thanks to lear70 for breaking it down for all of us...and i know pay and the associated stuff that goes with are important...but so is work rules, scope and language...as lear70 pointed out in his last post....stay informed and keep others informed...we can do better and we will gain a better contract by staying unified until our goals, not the companies, are met....

 

[j41driver]

I have a question.

Would any of you who work at AirTran start working there today if you were to do it all over again, even though the contract is in limbo?

Thanks!

I sure wouldn't. Don't get me wrong...the vast majority of the CA's I've flown with have been great guys. It's just that management has NO IDEA how to treat employees and I can't imagine working under this way of management for the remainder of my career. Hopefully that will change when JL steps down but who knows....

 

[wood pecker]

After flying w/ an "undecided" CA, I am guessing that they will vote yes b/c they can not get pass the hourly rate. That is why the rates were the main emphasis b/c they know there are a few uneducated people who can not read past the chance for an extra buck. Mention scope, RJs, unlimited turbprops, loss of credit, emergency bank and there reply is well we are not Southwest and we got to keep from going under. Then you ask about the record profit w/ the current contract and you realize they are just plain dumb and you are better off playing w/ the grime light than trying to talk facts.
"Well I am not on reserve, I am too senior to be put on an RJ, AAI does not want props, When I was a new hire. The credit system is stealing... Who wants stand-ups? F everybody I want my money."
I told him to reserve a phone booth for his retirement party b/c he won't need anything larger. Then I landed w/ the auto power off to watch him freak out.

 

[Guppy Guy]

Well, this vote will be very interesting. I got together today with four of our captains and was relieved to hear them all say what an insult this TA is.

I was certainly concerned that the more senior captains would have the same attitude that Woodpecker described. That they would be out for personal gain over group and industry requirerments.
This was not the case at all. We all agreed that this TA needs to go down hard, again!!, a new leardeship needs to be put in place, and a new NC needs to make sure this is done right. There is no great rush to have this thing done tomorrow.

I hope that guys who are on the fence about this TA see it for what it is. I think they will. I can't imagine anyone who truely understands the language and the loop holes in this thing voting to approve it.

My guess is it dies 75/25 and we start over next year.

Thank you Lear for all of your hard work. I've printed out your info. and will show it to whoever I am flying with. Education and information is the key to giving this POS the quick death it deserves.

Good Night and Good Luck

 

[DougCorp-9]

Section 1 still gives away up to 86 seats.

Rule #1: Never give your flying away.
Rule #2: See rule #1


Voting NO.

 

[DougCorp-9]

Regarding the mediator not being available. There is nothing that requires us to have the mediator there to negotiate with the company. He can only make sure that they show up to the table.

 

[Critter717]

Excellent question as I have an interview next month. I have to be honest, I don't have a really good feeling about what's going on over there...

If you are looking to upgrade in 4+ years, work for a company that will live or die by it's own decisions, fly nice airplanes, etc...you will enjoy working for the company. I made a little over 150k last year(8 yr 717Ca) for you "lateral move" regional guys/gals.

Say what you will, this company will not invest in anything that does not get a return. They are not tied to a "mainline" anything. If you don't like to fly, look some where else. Show at the interview knowing we wear hats, push wheelchairs, pull tickets and fetch strollers, program the FMS and even -gasp- as a captain- do a walk around if it will help move things along. To base a decision soley on how contract talks are going is short sighted in my opinion. If this stuff makes you queasy you will hate it at AirTran.

Go with your gut. High cost structure airlines have always had great success. You should have no trouble finding one.

For me, I could not sign up again fast enough.

 

[atldc9]

If you are looking to upgrade in 4+ years, work for a company that will live or die by it's own decisions, fly nice airplanes, etc...you will enjoy working for the company. I made a little over 150k last year(8 yr 717Ca) for you "lateral move" regional guys/gals.

Say what you will, this company will not invest in anything that does not get a return. They are not tied to a "mainline" anything. If you don't like to fly, look some where else. Show at the interview knowing we wear hats, push wheelchairs, pull tickets and fetch strollers, program the FMS and even -gasp- as a captain- do a walk around if it will help move things along. To base a decision soley on how contract talks are going is short sighted in my opinion. If this stuff makes you queasy you will hate it at AirTran.

Go with your gut. High cost structure airlines have always had great success. You should have no trouble finding one.

For me, I could not sign up again fast enough.

Yup, what he said...

 

[DougCorp-9]

Show at the interview knowing we wear hats, push wheelchairs, pull tickets and fetch strollers, program the FMS and even -gasp- as a captain- do a walk around if it will help move things along. To base a decision soley on how contract talks are going is short sighted in my opinion. If this stuff makes you queasy you will hate it at AirTran.

]

Great. That is a big help to get the company to fix these problems. You might, but we don't.

 

[jumppilot]

Lear70 -
You’ve done a great job with your presentation. I’m just confused with the 1st year FO pay chart. It’s listed as:

Current 42.75....Proposed 38.50....9.01% TA Increase

Since they want to lower the first year pay, shouldn’t it say Decrease or maybe have a minus sign in front of it?

Thanks…

Wish y’all the best!

You missed the negative symbol in the TA pay chart.

 

[Lear70]

You missed the negative symbol in the TA pay chart.

He was right, I made all those charts and rebuttal in about 4 hours, and there were a few excel formula errors that I fixed once he pointed them out.

Took out some of the political stuff about recall and made it ONLY about the T.A. One issue at a time...

Woodpecker, I've flown with a guy like that. Took the whole trip patiently pointing out things in the rebuttal and a printed contract copy to convince him, but I finally did.

And there will be people you never can convince, they're just too happy to have a job and be in the left seat making six figures.

Thanks for trying to pass the word, and don't give up! I still believe this will die, but we need to push every single person we talk to about it to make sure it dies as thoroughly as possible!

Thanks to everyone for the support and I hope to see you in the crew room or a road show soon!

 

[newnan]

I'll do a walk around when it meets the 3 S rule (seventies, sunny, and Saturday or Sunday when the feds are usually off)

 

[MDW]

Lear,
Just wondering if the part about "lines being awarded in seniority order unless they violate an FAR" is still in there. I haven't seen it mentioned by you or the NPA since TA2 came out. That is such a huge concession, as it leaves our awarded lines up in the air. What a scary precedent.
Thanks
Yes, Yes, No

 

[labatt]

MDW,

Good question. You beat me to it. I looked for it, but didn't see it either. Hopefully it's gone.

Keep up the good work Lear. Appreciate you taking the time to tear this thing apart and fill us all in on the pitfalls of this thing.

 

[mnboyev]

Negotiate Brake Release... not GNS movement!!!

 

[mnboyev]

AirTran is a good place to work as a pilot... we will get a fair deal .. probably have to wear a lid though.. LOL...

Not a regional airline at all ... for all you backpack toting under paid RJ fellas... keep your Ipods and DocMartins at home... Flame away !!