Airtran posts 4th quarter profit of 1.9 million

[redflyer65]

From what I understand, doesn't your ability to fly most trips at premium pay vary greatly from domicile to domicile and month to month? Surely not EVERYONE can "game the system" like that? If so, wouldn't everyone be doing it? Something I need to ask them about I guess...

The premium pay has started leaning more on seniority than anything else. So yes, depends on your seniority in which base. Alot of variables.

But, its really easy picking up straight time from other pilots. It's all automated, so you just point and click and its yours. It's easy to really increase your credit with just straight time.

If you want to spend alot of time on the computer and 'work' the premium pay, then you can. It takes effort, and it's helpful if you live in base. There is a big group that does it for sure. Ran into a senior FO who made over 200k. He just has to be close to a computer to keep tabs on whats available. I'm too lazy for that and just go for straight time. Its how much effort your willing to put into it..

 

[Lear70]

Cool, thanks for the explanation. Looking forward to learning the nuances, always happy to invest a little extra time on the computer for more pay for the same days worked.

 

[texman]

Cool, thanks for the explanation. Looking forward to learning the nuances, always happy to invest a little extra time on the computer for more pay for the same days worked.

Or what I like is same pay less days worked. ELLIT is nice.

 

[ivauir]

I was able to get as much premium as I wanted my first two years. Seniority is important to the process, but SWA likes to keep the manning level low enough that there is extra flying to be had at any seniority level. I don't think it is as easy right now, but I stopped playing that game years ago.

FWIW I commute and I averaged over 120 a month when I was playing the game.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Wait till the "2011 Battle Plan" from GK details come out!

 

[frqntflyr]

"Gaming the system" is nothing more than living in base and understanding legality/scheduling rules. It is quite easy to set yourself up for some real nice premium time, especially in the summer. I'm a 4th year FO (on third year for almost half the year), worked it during the summer, and made $155,000. Most of my months I come close to double TFP vs Block hours. I don't abuse sick time or pull any of the "cartel" BS. We have a captain here who made over $400,000.....three years ago. So if you want to break your back its there. Not my thing.

 

[T45Flyer]

No, GT1900 is an F/O.


Two of my friends at SWA were hired within 2-3 months either way of when I was hired at AirTran, which makes them 5th/6th year F/O. In speaking with them in the last few weeks, one of them made $145k, one made $160k this year.

From what I understand, doesn't your ability to fly most trips at premium pay vary greatly from domicile to domicile and month to month? Surely not EVERYONE can "game the system" like that? If so, wouldn't everyone be doing it? Something I need to ask them about I guess...

Lear,
There are many variables involved in flying for big dollars and not working many more days. Some domiciles are easier (OAK,MDW,LAS) due to a higher amount of commuters. As Frqntflyr said, we are not "Gaming" anything. It is understanding the contract, how our schedulers work their solutions, and being available (living in domicile helps). The guys who don't make an effort to educate themselves are the ones who accuse people of "gaming the system".

I do lots of turns and get paid for a lot of things I don't do (due to our rigs). I work 17-18 days a month, but spend many of those nights sleeping in my own bed. I do have seniority, but that only helps during the first part of the month. We have a artificial cap on open time for guys who fly a lot. Once you get to 117% percent of your base line average in TFP, you lose your seniority in picking up from the company. You can still pick up all the straight pay from our Trip Trade Giveaway or ELITT that you want.

Add all of this flexibility in your income, and our amazing benefits , like in-expensive health care, etc.. you will be impressed. The flip side, is that you also have to ability to give your stuff away and adjust your schedule and even not fly at all if thats what pleases you. The junior guys schedule (excluding reserves) is very close in QOL to senior guys schedules, due to contractual limitations.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

-T45

 

[Lear70]

Thanks, T... didn't mean to insinuate that "gaming the system" was somehow bad, just an expression.

Looking forward to all of it for sure (our health insurance sucks and I hardly use it). Will gladly accept the offer for questions when we start transitioning to your scheduling system and contract, thanks! :beer:

 

[gt1900]

GT1900,

I can understand AT has been profitable for the past 8-9 year. Your frustration is based on WHY. Why are we being sold if we have been so profitable? Well you and I are not the CPA's of either company. So for you to use that argument for "what about my short upgrade" Or mine " what about me being in the top 1% of the list when I retire" AT can not grow with out SWA's 3.8 billion in short hand cash. Your company is for sale. But the good thing you and I will still be all right after it is all said and done. I know that we or I spat off here on FI, But I can understand your frustration. So don't any of the SWA guy's are heartless. We are all in the same boat. The one thing I like and I have said it before, is the pride we both have. Once the dust settles those energies will be concentrated into one group. Our group just has to show the ALPA mentality doesn't work with SWA. It is all about success sharing.

You forget, AAI didn't come to SWA. SWA came to AAI. And No, AAI didn't need SWA's money to continue growing. AAI has always been for sale, everything is for sale for the right price. 3 years ago AAI was the ones looking to do the buying, and not be the buyer. AAI has been stocking up on cash and increasing their balance sheet. Before the merger, AAI was looking to take 6 airplanes in 2011 with a possible 200 new pilots. If you look at AAI's growth they have continued to expand MKE and continue growing in the Caribbean. AAI's balance sheet and growth are both pretty good. Not the growth we experienced 3 years ago, but still growth. Uprgrades were occuring, and we were hiring.

Thats why guys get bent out of shape when some peole say were going to get stapled, or end up near the bottom of the seniority list. As long as its a fair integration, then I think everyone will be happy. You just have to realize the AAI guys are a little leary after what SWAPA tried to do with Frontier. I think somewhere between relative seniority and date of hire, with fences built in for several years, is most likely the best scenerio. You guys get a amall increase in seniority and growth, we get a better contract. One the fences drop in about 5 years, and AAI and SWA's top guys retire, everyone will end up better off in the long run.

 

[ivauir]

GT1900,

Not that it matters, but AAI came to SWA 6 times before GK finally said "ok".

after what SWAPA tried to do with Frontier

You got this part backwards too: it is FAPA who tried to do "what" to SWA. They "shot for the moon" and never came off of relative seniority. They overestimated how badly CK wanted the deal and REALLY overestimated their alternative.