Airtran posts 4th quarter profit of 1.9 million

[CaptAntoineMack]

Wrong again Dogg. Reread my post. It was directed specifically at you and I stand by my comments. As for what my response inflames, maybe you should take a good look in the mirror about the tone of your statements before you lecture me about stirring the pot.

But I am clearly representing the sentiments of most all the SWA pilots. I am not accusing of stirring any pot. I am just trying to inform you, and the likes of you, you are potentially harming your own future.

I suggest you continue with your caustic course if you and your fellow Airtran pilots don't care about this acquisition. I have what you want. I am actually trying to help you but your concern on our view on seniority integration is clouding your judgment.

It would serve you and all Airtran pilots to understand that you will get much more with honey than vinegar. Hiding behind a mask does not cover the true attitudes of the Airtran pilots on this board. I think a straight staple of all Airtran pilots is clearly not fair. Nor do I think relative seniority for the AT pilots is as well. All SWA pilots feel the AT pilots are getting a windfall. You will not change our minds because you are. Therefore all SWA pilots need to feel like we have got "something" within our contract including seniority that feels like a gain. This profitability for SWA is a gain for the stockholders, not the union employees.

I am telling you, and you really need to believe, all this "SWA pilots are not giving anything" can be an element that shuts down this acquisition. That is how these things can work out.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

It's simple; your company was purchased by SWA. If not for a law passed by congress to protect the weak you would be hitting the street. Happens every day in America. Hope that clears things up?

If not for a law passed by congress huh? Well then it's settled. Except for that inconvenient little detail you mentioned.
Thanks for helping clear everything up Kernal.

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

Nothing but Bond-McCaskill . . . , :erm:

plus our CBA, which your management is a party to, as of DOCC.

What if we choose not to integrate you into the SWAPA seniority list? And we are the acquiring carrier and our contract does not mandate us to do that.

You are putting way too much weight on that portion of your contract being the carrier being acquired. I hate to tell you this but my reliable sources say....no. B/M is only if we both choose arbitration, which can go on for years until other legal measures are taken.

Ty, if SWA buys AT and dismantles the airline, it has all the legal rights to do so. It would only take SWA three years to replace your airline. That is not what I want. But you are really doing a dis service to yourself and your fellow crew members with your continued condensation of your potential future employer. You and others here are greatly underestimating the power of your words.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

But I am clearly representing the sentiments of most all the SWA pilots. I am not accusing of stirring any pot. I am just trying to inform you, and the likes of you, you are potentially harming your own future.

I suggest you continue with your caustic course if you and your fellow Airtran pilots don't care about this acquisition. I have what you want. I am actually trying to help you but your concern on our view on seniority integration is clouding your judgment.

It would serve you and all Airtran pilots to understand that you will get much more with honey than vinegar. Hiding behind a mask does not cover the true attitudes of the Airtran pilots on this board. I think a straight staple of all Airtran pilots is clearly not fair. Nor do I think relative seniority for the AT pilots is as well. All SWA pilots feel the AT pilots are getting a windfall. You will not change our minds because you are. Therefore all SWA pilots need to feel like we have got "something" within our contract including seniority that feels like a gain. This profitability for SWA is a gain for the stockholders, not the union employees.

I am telling you, and you really need to believe, all this "SWA pilots are not giving anything" can be an element that shuts down this acquisition. That is how these things can work out.

I believe you believe that you are just trying to be helpful and are incapable of comprehending just how pedantic and small you come off as when u are being helpful. How about we try letting the process run its course and stop lecturing us on what "you" are "giving" us. Your words not mine and you use them over and over again here.

 

[Ty Webb]

Antoine Smack:

You sir, are an idiot, and an uninformed one, at that.

Everything you just wrote was debunked months ago. Do a few searches, it's all been covered.

By all means, go hunker down in your mancave and work on your fiendish plan to disband AAI, operate it is an alter ego, or as a non-union workforce. We'll let you know when the grownups have come up with the real plan, and you can come out of your cave again. :laugh:

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

I believe you believe that you are just trying to be helpful and are incapable of comprehending just how pedantic and small you come off as when u are being helpful.

Just keep it up. I have refrained from this sort of psychological warfare with this type of personal immature insinuations. You are killing yourself because of who knows what.

I am with the rest of the SWA pilots, I pray to god this deal falls through. We are acquiring a questionable work group. And we don't need to.

Best of luck to all Airtran pilots.

 

[Kharma Police]

What if we choose not to integrate you into the SWAPA seniority list? And we are the acquiring carrier and our contract does not mandate us to do that.

You are putting way too much weight on that portion of your contract being the carrier being acquired. I hate to tell you this but my reliable sources say....no. B/M is only if we both choose arbitration, which can go on for years until other legal measures are taken.

Ty, if SWA buys AT and dismantles the airline, it has all the legal rights to do so. It would only take SWA three years to replace your airline. That is not what I want. But you are really doing a dis service to yourself and your fellow crew members with your continued condensation of your potential future employer. You and others here are greatly underestimating the power of your words.

LOL!, take a week or two off from this mess and realize nothing has changed. Same jibber jabbing spiteful knuckle heads with empty threats wishing for a whipsaw.

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

Antoine Smack:

You sir, are an idiot, and an uninformed one, at that.

Everything you just wrote was debunked months ago. Do a few searches, it's all been covered.

There is no further point in discussing any of this with you.

Nothing has been debunked.

You have issues.

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

LOL!, take a week or two off from this mess and realize nothing has changed. Same jibber jabbing spiteful knuckle heads with empty threats wishing for a whipsaw.

The Airtran talk here is harmful. Not a threat, just information you can not be privy to.

Some don't want to hear the facts and so be it. No matter who is telling what to your face, SWA pilots are not welcoming you to our airline. And as silly as it may seem, it is because of the personal jabs from some very immature Airtran pilots on this board. What a shame so few can screw it up for so many.

 

[S3sundowner]

You all need to give it a rest, and I include myself in that one. The arguments of who brings what to the table are there for all to see. Go spend some time with your families and let the powers that be hash this out. To the aai pilots on here, you know you would s**t yourselves if this deal was to fall through. The vast majority of the swa pilots would be ecstatic. That says it all. There is no way that the swa management hasn't prepared for ALL eventualities, so come nicely or maybe not at all.

 

[T3700]

Ty, there are now stickers at SWA that has your name with circle/slash to show the displeasure of this purchase. You are becoming infamous in a Lee Harvey Oswald kind of way.

Wow, is your life so meaningless that you actually make up stickers about some anonymous person on the internet?

 

[gt1900]

Not true. My domicile rep says they were briefed by an outside consultant and that even a staple gives every pilot on your seniority list an increase in career earnings when the payrates, rigs, and retirement are factored in.

What you forget is that its not all about earnings. And like I said before, you are comparing current contracts. If AAI was to merge with ALA and take their contract, then everything changes. Besides, its not all about the money all the time. Quality of Life is very important. Im currently a senior FO who gets pretty much any schedule I want. I get weekends, Holidays, can pretty much pick my trips, and can get any time off that I need. Currently, I'll also retire in the top 1% at AAI , so I will hold very good schedules again once I get towards retirement. Right now, quality of life is more important then the pay. And I do just fine on my AAI pay. I don't want to retire in the top 30% and not be able to get good schedules when I want to spend time with friends and family as I get older. I don't mind falling a little in relative seniority, but I do not want to fall much.. The SWA contract is great, but it wasn't worth it to the F9 guys to get stapled, and they were a bankrupt airline in the midst of pay cuts. AAI has been profitable for 8 of the last 9 years, had movement (if it weren't for the SWA merger), and is a pretty stable company, so it REALLY isn't worth it for us. Don't get me wrong, Id love to come to SWA and help build a better airline with you guys and take over the world. But I do not want to do it at the risk of losing all me seniority and starting near the bottom, no matter how good the pay is.

 

[Ty Webb]

. . . .

 

[S3sundowner]

GT, a sensible post. After the "proposed" hiring and a fence for, say, 2 years, retirements kick in and new hires will mean that you might never see a significant degradation in your qol.

 

[roughneck]

GT, very sensible indeed. I hope your M/C is wise enough to know that relative seniority isn't an option. They would be doing a service to your group if they begin to work on fence restrictions that protect your QOL after you are placed on the bottom end of our seniority list. You should absolutely keep what you brought to the table. Fence off ATL to protect your QOL longterm and call it a day. That sure beats the alternative.

 

[gt1900]

Roughneck... It would be nice if you tried to keep this sensible as well. Do you honestly think we will be happy at the bottom end of your seniority list? The "alternative" as you say, is that AAI keeps growing, keeps expanding into the caribbean, and we possibly look to merge with a company such as ALA. While SWA continues to have the best contract out there, with relatively no growth, and no international flying.

Heres an idea. Put SWA's top 850 (the guys hired before AAI was even a company) on the top, put AAI's bottom 100 (the guys hired after SWA stopped hiring) on the bottom, and integrate everyone else 1-4 (or whatever the ratio would be between the remaining pilots), and then put up a 3-5 year fence. The AAI guys would lose a little relative seniority overall (they would lose a lot the first 5 years, but it wouldn't matter if there was a fence), but it wouldn't efffect anyone short term.

IMO, that would fall somewhere between relative seniority, and date of hire. At the end of 5 years, most of the top SWA guys would be gone (and a few of the AAI guys) and I "think" everyone would be only slightly unhappy. And IMO that would be a very good success.

 

[Ty Webb]

If you put up a big ol' fence, how am I going to fly with my new fan club?

Ty

 

[roughneck]

The "alternative" as you say, is that AAI keeps growing, keeps expanding into the caribbean, and we possibly look to merge with a company such as AL

How are you going to grow? You no longer have any airplane orders. Nobody wants to buy you other than SWA because we want your gates in ATL and a few slots. The alternative is a lot closer to Muse Air than it is Delta.

Do you honestly think we will be happy at the bottom end of your seniority list?

You seem to keep confusing yourself with the acquiring carrier. It doesn't matter what you are happy with in the end.

 

[MILPILOT17]

If you put up a big ol' fence, how am I going to fly with my new fan club?

Ty

Maybe we could put a special exclusion in for Ty to jump the fence every couple of months or so Oh, and you buy the beer!

 

[gt1900]

How are you going to grow? You no longer have any airplane orders. Nobody wants to buy you other than SWA because we want your gates in ATL and a few slots. The alternative is a lot closer to Muse Air than it is Delta.



You seem to keep confusing yourself with the acquiring carrier. It doesn't matter what you are happy with in the end.

Why don't we have any airplane orders? If it weren't for the SWA deal we would still have 50 or 55 on order, and theres 20 or so 717's sitting in the desert. AAI was growing, and "was" hiring pilots, unlike SWA.. Who cares if nobody else wanted to purchase AAI, making money 8 out of 9 years and a growing economy would look pretty good to me. AAI doesn't need to be bought by anyone to remain profitable and grow. The alternative is a company that continues to grow slowly and continues to make profits.

You keep confusing AAI with a company that was bankrupt and needs to be bought out. AAI is none of those. AAI is a very stable airline that can continue to make money in the future. Why else would SWA be interested in purchasing us?

Again. We can come to the table and be reasonable, or we can come to the table and make unrealistic demands. AAI is not F9, and yes, we will demand to be treated fairly. Either that, or we will have another USAir debacle on our hands. I don't think anyone wants that.