Airtran posts 4th quarter profit of 1.9 million

[johnsonrod]

qt1900 good enthusiasm, figure out at your rates how long it will take to earn a million dollars of wages and then reshuffle. That will be much closer to the end result. Look at it this way, you just a won a million plus dollars over the length of your career and have much better job security. Nothing personal I am happy for you. It just is what it is. Easy math, $1 000 000 divided by $150 000 a year average for captains look for captains to insert about at year seven, with the exceptions of the aged. All things equal in the end you just won a million. Enjoy it, it sure makes life easier.

YOU are NOT giving the AT pilots anything. If you got a pay cut, that would be one thing, and I suspect you will get a slight pay RAISE in a new joint contract. If you get close to relative seniority, then your QOL doesn't go down either. More planes will be added to your fleet, including nicer 717s, compared to the old 737-300s/500s. When your SWA Captains eventually leave at age 70 (they will have fought for that too and helped turn the tide just like 65), you will move up and finally make the really big bucks. In the meantime, you will be introduced to allnighters (that AT flew), and some cool cities like Moline and Gulfport. See, eveything will turn out fine! Yes, the AT guys will win a million, but you won't lose a dime! That is what you need to put into your head.

 

[atldc9]

I hate getting into this, but, I'm gonna chime in for a quick second. The 2009 CBA for SWA shows a 5 year FO at roughly $109 TFP. This doesn't include the most recent raise.

If we believe SWAPA's info given to us, the average FO over the last five years has averaged 110 TFP per month. That's $11990 a month or $143,880. The average FL Capt is around 90 hours of pay per month. The old 12 year rate was $152. That's $164,160.

Now there may be A 5 year FO that makes more than our #1 Captain, but it's not a realistic comparison to say all of the FO's do. I'm well over the above average, and don't work hard at all, as I'm sure there are at SWA as well. There are guys at FL making 2x average by being sched's biatch.

 

[johnsonrod]

Dude, where are you from? Earth to moon base, come in, over?

A 5 year SWA F/O makes more money than your number 1 captain. You need to look at the big picture. You have won the lottery and if you aren't careful you will lose the ticket before you get to cash it in.

Billy, GK won't let this MERGER get away, Wall St won't let him. Stop the threats. YOU AREN'T GIVING THE AT GUYS ANYTHING. SWA WILL. YOU WON'T LOSE A DIME, RATHER YOU MAY ADD A COUPLE DIMES TO YOUR PAY PER HOUR WHEN THE JOINT CONTRACT IS FINISHED. MAYBE THIS LARGER FONT WILL HELP YOU UNDERSTAND THAT. YOU AREN'T HELPING THE AT GUYS OUT AT ALL, SWA WILL BE. GET OVER IT.

 

[birdman1]

Scoreboard,

The more appropriate analogy would be if AAI bought Mesa.

Remember your talking about a 50-100% payscale windfall, then add better QOL and retirement with profit sharing. Not even close to the same. So far away from NW/DL it's night and day.

So let me ask you and all your big SWA guys on this board. Do you want to be mean and staple another group of fellow airline pilots, or stab them in the back, like you did ATA? After reading several posts from you mighty SWA guys, you are starting to look more and more like your next door neighbor in Texas. Man, what happen to the LUV?

 

[vixin]

Except their CEO said they werent going to. I have posted that info 1 time to many to put the stuff on here again. Just like SWA ceo did. AAI financial picture wasnt the brightest. qt1900 I think you are using some fuzzy math. Not that its going to mean a whole lot any how.

 

[vixin]

I hate getting into this, but, I'm gonna chime in for a quick second. The 2009 CBA for SWA shows a 5 year FO at roughly $109 TFP. This doesn't include the most recent raise.

If we believe SWAPA's info given to us, the average FO over the last five years has averaged 110 TFP per month. That's $11990 a month or $143,880. The average FL Capt is around 90 hours of pay per month. The old 12 year rate was $152. That's $164,160.

Now there may be A 5 year FO that makes more than our #1 Captain, but it's not a realistic comparison to say all of the FO's do. I'm well over the above average, and don't work hard at all, as I'm sure there are at SWA as well. There are guys at FL making 2x average by being sched's biatch.

SO you are saying its ok because a 12 CA makes a whopping $21,000 more then a 5 year FO. By the way you would use the raised rates for the SWA FO because that was part of the contract prior to Sept 27th. So then said FO makes $147470, a difference of $16,690. Add in health care cost, less dues etc and you looking at about equal pay for you maxed CA vs. the 5 year FO.

Serious question. Do AAI pilots credit more hours then they fly. Then I could see the 90 hours. Like SWA 110 tfp is 1320 trips for the year and about 900 hours of flying.

 

[johnsonrod]

so you are saying its ok because a 12 ca makes a whopping $21,000 more then a 5 year fo. By the way you would use the raised rates for the swa fo because that was part of the contract prior to sept 27th. So then said fo makes $147470, a difference of $16,690. Add in health care cost, less dues etc and you looking at about equal pay for you maxed ca vs. The 5 year fo.

You are not giving the AT pilots anything. Swa will. They will get a big pay raise, and you won't lose anything. Get over it.

 

[vixin]

This message is hidden because johnsonrod is on your ignore list.

Ahhhhhh!

 

[scoreboardII]

Ygbsm

So let me ask you and all your big SWA guys on this board. Do you want to be mean and staple another group of fellow airline pilots, or stab them in the back, like you did ATA? After reading several posts from you mighty SWA guys, you are starting to look more and more like your next door neighbor in Texas. Man, what happen to the LUV?

Mean? No. Business like and professional, yes, unlike your spiteful retort.

This is just business. I hate to ruin your dreamlike state but the pilots of SWA had no business input on ATA. So no, we didn't stab anyone in the back.

I notice you failed to answer question yet still managed to throw out some disparaging remarks, I know this isn't how AT pilots roll, or do they?

 

[scoreboardII]

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johnsonrod This message is hidden because johnsonrod is on your ignore list.

 

[Lear70]

I don't know why you guys keep going at each other.

Nothing is going to get solved on here, you're not going to change ANYONE'S mind on the subject, and you're only irritating each other. No matter how calm you think you're coming across, the other person is going to read something offensive into what you've written. It's the nature of the beast when you can't have a conversation in person, with no facial expression, body language, or tone, the written word takes on whatever tone the READER has in reading it. Been that way for years on here...

Seriously, I'll buy the beer, but for the love of God, just quit irritating each other and let the MC's do their job.

p.s. Had a great commute to/from work this week on Southwest. Had to sit in the 2nd cockpit jumpseat both ways and I know that's not comfortable for anyone, so thanks for the lift! Positive words from everyone and a lot of luv. Might have helped on the way back that I brought Krispy Kreme for all the MCO concourse gate agents and the flight crew...

 

[vixin]

Much better isnt it SB?

 

[scoreboardII]

See donuts, now thats cool.

 

[MILPILOT17]

Who's CPT's make $150,000 on average? I guarantee you its not AAI's 12 year CPT's. Id say our average 12 year CPT was around $175,000 before the new pay raises. Not including retirement. Like I said, SWA's contract is better, but its not the windfall that some of you guys seem to think it is. Especially if we lose a lot of seniority. If the SWA guys understand that there needs to be a fair integration, then this thing could be very good for both pilot groups. But if you guys think that your going to have 1800 happy SWA pilots with great attitudes after you try and staple us, your in for a big suprise.. Remember, an 8 or 9 year AAI pilot makes more then an 8 and 9 year SWA pilot. So this isnt a huge windfall if we get stapled. If it weren't for the merger, Id be able to hold the left seat in a couple months. The difference between my 7 year pay at both airlines would have been pretty small.

This guy is still working on his GED.

 

[MILPILOT17]

So let me ask you and all your big SWA guys on this board. Do you want to be mean and staple another group of fellow airline pilots, or stab them in the back, like you did ATA? After reading several posts from you mighty SWA guys, you are starting to look more and more like your next door neighbor in Texas. Man, what happen to the LUV?

Those questions are easy to answer, YES!

 

[redflyer65]

So let me ask you and all your big SWA guys on this board. Do you want to be mean and staple another group of fellow airline pilots, or stab them in the back, like you did ATA? After reading several posts from you mighty SWA guys, you are starting to look more and more like your next door neighbor in Texas. Man, what happen to the LUV?

Birdman,

No hate, I'm just stating facts pure and simple. Southwest pilots had absolutely NO input on what happened at ATA.

Just get tired of the AAI guys stating there's no windfall here, that couldn't be farther from the truth.

and the fact that whenever Johnrod opens his mouth it becomes so evident how shallow his knowledge of the industry is, but still entertaining none the less.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Vixen. Yes we have a lot of soft pay built in. Very easy to get 90+ a month.

 

[gt1900]

Serious question. Do AAI pilots credit more hours then they fly. Then I could see the 90 hours. Like SWA 110 tfp is 1320 trips for the year and about 900 hours of flying.

Absolutely. Perfect example. My next 3 days trip blocks 13.3, yet the credit is 17.5. Last month I flew 73 hours, and had 86 hours of credit. In December, I had 99.5 hrs of credit. I flew just over 800 hours last year, yet I had close to 1000 hrs credit ( I don't pick chit up either, I like my QOL more then the money). Like I said, its not the huge windfall some of you guys seem to think it is. We have w************************* who make well over $200,000 a year pretty easily, and thats before we got the pay raise. So the money is there if you want to fly.

 

[birdman1]

Those questions are easy to answer, YES!

LOL, well than it will turn into another Usair/AWA. I hope I am wrong for the sake of the employees and customers from both companies. This two could turn into one hell of an airline. Jesus, pilots are so short sighted and never think about the long term results. AirTran should maybe think about starting a keep AirTran my airline campaign, and find a way to remove their current management. This airline has a lot of potential. I wish the SWA and AirTran folks all the luck in the world because you are going to need it.

 

[GuppyWN]

Wow........ this is getting exciting!

 

[scarlet]

SWA is buying AT to GET RID OF the COMPETITOR and 737 (50 of them we had coming)(your welcome) at an AWESOME PRICE !!

No growth for 3-5 years and now SWA is hiring and growth is planned !!

Lets not settle the SLI between us and lets go to the arbitration.

 

[vixin]

Now its no growth for 5 years. You guys are getting funny.

 

[Bill Nelson]

Lets not settle the SLI between us and lets go to the arbitration.

Be careful what you wish for. Your case is not nearly as compelling when you take the emotion out of the argument. Arbitration will not get the result you are looking for.

 

[Ty Webb]

Be careful what you wish for. Your case is not nearly as compelling when you take the emotion out of the argument. Arbitration will not get the result you are looking for.

Anonymous USAirways pilot on message board, circa 2006

 

[Bill Nelson]

You are right that sounds like something that should have been said to the USAir pilots back then before they shot themselves in the foot. You are about to do the same.

 

[texman]

What you forget is that its not all about earnings. And like I said before, you are comparing current contracts. If AAI was to merge with ALA and take their contract, then everything changes. Besides, its not all about the money all the time. Quality of Life is very important. I'm currently a senior FO who gets pretty much any schedule I want. I get weekends, Holidays, can pretty much pick my trips, and can get any time off that I need. Currently, I'll also retire in the top 1% at AAI , so I will hold very good schedules again once I get towards retirement. Right now, quality of life is more important then the pay. And I do just fine on my AAI pay. I don't want to retire in the top 30% and not be able to get good schedules when I want to spend time with friends and family as I get older. I don't mind falling a little in relative seniority, but I do not want to fall much.. The SWA contract is great, but it wasn't worth it to the F9 guys to get stapled, and they were a bankrupt airline in the midst of pay cuts. AAI has been profitable for 8 of the last 9 years, had movement (if it weren't for the SWA merger), and is a pretty stable company, so it REALLY isn't worth it for us. Don't get me wrong, Id love to come to SWA and help build a better airline with you guys and take over the world. But I do not want to do it at the risk of losing all me seniority and starting near the bottom, no matter how good the pay is.

Dude I am at the bottom of the FO list and I still will retire top 1% of SWA with 6000 pilots. Go do the QOL and math on this with our current contract. I flew 600ish block hours last year and made 135k with 15 days off a month avg, and that is being on reserve. Can you imagine what a arbitrator will see in relation to what your QOL/pay in the long run verses mine. Your carrer expectatoins and QOL are not as the same as mine.

 

[T45Flyer]

Absolutely. Perfect example. My next 3 days trip blocks 13.3, yet the credit is 17.5. Last month I flew 73 hours, and had 86 hours of credit. In December, I had 99.5 hrs of credit. I flew just over 800 hours last year, yet I had close to 1000 hrs credit ( I don't pick chit up either, I like my QOL more then the money). Like I said, its not the huge windfall some of you guys seem to think it is. We have w************************* who make well over $200,000 a year pretty easily, and thats before we got the pay raise. So the money is there if you want to fly.

I'm assuming you are a Captain.

Last year, I flew 776 hours as a SWA FO. Averaged 17-18 days a month. Live in Domicile. Nine year FO pay scale, NOT Lance Captain. Flew most of my trips at 1.5 pay. Annual pay $240,000. Retro pay $15,000. 2010 take home pay $255,000 as a FIRST OFFICER.

You are in for a windfall. Trust me.

 

[redflyer65]

. Can you imagine what a arbitrator will see in relation to what your QOL/pay in the long run verses mine. Your carrer expectatoins and QOL are not as the same as mine.

Bingo.

 

[Lear70]

I'm assuming you are a Captain.

No, GT1900 is an F/O.

Last year, I flew 776 hours as a SWA FO. Averaged 17-18 days a month. Live in Domicile. Nine year FO pay scale, NOT Lance Captain. Flew most of my trips at 1.5 pay. Annual pay $240,000. Retro pay $15,000. 2010 take home pay $255,000 as a FIRST OFFICER.

Two of my friends at SWA were hired within 2-3 months either way of when I was hired at AirTran, which makes them 5th/6th year F/O. In speaking with them in the last few weeks, one of them made $145k, one made $160k this year.

From what I understand, doesn't your ability to fly most trips at premium pay vary greatly from domicile to domicile and month to month? Surely not EVERYONE can "game the system" like that? If so, wouldn't everyone be doing it? Something I need to ask them about I guess...

 

[texman]

GT1900,

I can understand AT has been profitable for the past 8-9 year. Your frustration is based on WHY. Why are we being sold if we have been so profitable? Well you and I are not the CPA's of either company. So for you to use that argument for "what about my short upgrade" Or mine " what about me being in the top 1% of the list when I retire" AT can not grow with out SWA's 3.8 billion in short hand cash. Your company is for sale. But the good thing you and I will still be all right after it is all said and done. I know that we or I spat off here on FI, But I can understand your frustration. So don't any of the SWA guy's are heartless. We are all in the same boat. The one thing I like and I have said it before, is the pride we both have. Once the dust settles those energies will be concentrated into one group. Our group just has to show the ALPA mentality doesn't work with SWA. It is all about success sharing.