AirTran pilots

[Nindiri]

Someone (NC Guy) told some people at the road show this morning that if we don't vote this in, then we don't have a contract at all and the company can do whatever they want. Flat out lie. I want a refund for my dues.

Did anyone call him out on it?

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

If this is actually the case it's no wonder the NC got their a$$es handed to them, they don't even understand RLA basics! I say recall everyone of them! I have absolutely no confidence that our union leadership has the ability or intestinal fortitude to see this through! Unbelievable!

I know two people that were there and heard it first hand. Seriously......I want a refund.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Did anyone call him out on it?

One of the guys didn't actually know it wasn't true...and the other said he tried but couldn't get a word in. It's kinda scary....people CAN be convinced (scared into) to vote "yes" by this kind of disinformation and fear tactic.

 

[USARET]

The lone FO on the BOD has posted his letter of support on the NPA web site. He states that some FO's have complained about the 4th year FO pay being less than Delta's (actually it's less up to about year 9), his response.... don't worry about it we will all be captains by then! I am truly mortified at the ignorance being displayed by our President and BOD. After reading that letter I am convinced without a doubt that the BOD is in way over their collective heads!

 

[beech1900kid]

The lone FO on the BOD has posted his letter of support on the NPA web site. He states that some FO's have complained about the 4th year FO pay being less than Delta's (actually it's less up to about year 9), his response.... don't worry about it we will all be captains by then! I am truly mortified at the ignorance being displayed by our President and BOD. After reading that letter I am convinced without a doubt that the BOD is in way over their collective heads!

I just read the letter. All I can say is WOW! These guys have their collective heads in the sand. The letter in question is weak at best.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

I just read the letter. All I can say is WOW! These guys have their collective heads in the sand. The letter in question is weak at best.

Maybe he wrote it with a gun to his head???

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

I have no problem with the CA argument. As long as it is written in the contract, at the third year I get CAs pay regardless of seat. Then I will sign this sh!t.

But thing is we wont upgrade anyway because of what is going to be given away with scope.:uzi:

 

[bladeusa]

that letter is ridiculous..
is he crazy???
excited about a concessionary ta?
i wasnt for a recall.. until now.. i think he's lost his mind.
i could pick apart each line of that letter.. but whats the point.
open the polls.. vote this down.. and start over.

 

[wood pecker]

Look under CDOs in the TA, we gave up 3 days off following 1 CDO. We should have left it at the 3 days off but allowed us to waive the 3 days since it was not a FAR.

Did you see the confession part in the TA. " I confesss that I was paid off to endorse this crappy TA. I am afraid I have failed everyone and want to refund your union dues that we pissed away. Actually most of your dues paid for many free sandwiches for newhires and the necessary 3 NPA speakers per class. Oh yeah thanks for the free Piccadilly meals. I could hardly discuss the TA b/c I usually ordered 2 meals for myself since they were free plus I deserved them since we will all make $200/ hour. However we will only be able to fly 2 hours/month North America not included."

 

[CitationLover]

I didn't say it was. I simply believe it would be a lot easier for MEH to push their agenda with both carriers being ALPA than with two separate unions with AirTran being the acquiring carrier.

tell that to AAA. midwest is the mergee, not the merger.

Yeah,,, sure,,, "career expectations" was what the AAA pilots got.

AAA/AWA is a p*ss-poor example of ALPA merger policy, simply because ALPA was taken out of the loop when AAA made the idiotic decision to request binding arbitration.

agreed, however the AAA furloughees had very little in "career" expectations. how would they have treated Delta if a buyout had gone through? they're self serving and are simply sabre rattling to show this. how about the AWA FO's who were looking at much faster upgrade times (with the new 190's) only to see all of that disappear and most of the new equipment going to the east.

True. But the AAA MEC tried that approach and it got them nowhere but screwed in a very large way. Have to be very careful with that kind of hard-nosed approach...

well to be honest the air tran pilot group has made overtures regarding fair and balanced integration issues. the midwest pilot group is REALLY small merging into a 5 times as large a company versus a larger AAA being merged into AWA. MEH MEC has little leverage in this compared to the sides in the AWA/AAA merger.

Gotta educate the pilot group on that very thing,,, That's also part of Section 1, along with Scope, and I just finished the last of that section and it's prepared to print; waiting for the other guys to chime in on R&I, Scheduling, and other stuff that's a big flag, put it all together, print a bunch of copies, and head down to ATL with it.

We have enough going on without trying to change unions. If people want it later on, then wait until we're not staring down the barrel of a gun (T.A.) One crisis at a time, please.

keep up the good work. i agree an alpa transition would not be useful at this time.

once again, what does the NPA charge for dues?

 

[Lear70]

Look under CDOs in the TA, we gave up 3 days off following 1 CDO.

Yup.

once again, what does the NPA charge for dues?

Too much, considering that this is the best they could do for a T.A.

Oh, for everyone else, by the way, I just found out that you will NOT be receiving a hard copy of the T.A. either mailed to your home OR available at the Road Shows.

That's right, you will not be able to read the full T.A. unless you either are comfortable thumbing through 157 pages of a PDF or Word document, or you pay the $15 bucks (like I did this evening) to print a hard copy of it for reference.

What is that the NPA said? "Please take the time to read the T.A. in full before you make up your mind."

They forgot to mention, "Oh, by the way, even though you're paying through the nose in dues, we're not going to bother to take the money to print them for you."

That has to be the single, biggest indicator I've seen yet that they expect this to fail. Why spend the money, right?

Despicable...

 

[j41driver]

The lone FO on the BOD has posted his letter of support on the NPA web site. He states that some FO's have complained about the 4th year FO pay being less than Delta's (actually it's less up to about year 9), his response.... don't worry about it we will all be captains by then! I am truly mortified at the ignorance being displayed by our President and BOD. After reading that letter I am convinced without a doubt that the BOD is in way over their collective heads!

He was a career military guy and AirTran is his first airline...no previous union experience.

 

[j41driver]

That has to be the single, biggest indicator I've seen yet that they expect this to fail.

If they want this to fail so bad, why do they keep coming out with "info" trying to sell it to us?

Vote NO...then recall the NC and BoD.

 

[CleanLiving]

[quote=USARET;1345670]The lone FO on the BOD has posted his letter of support on the NPA web site. He states that some FO's have complained about the 4th year FO pay being less than Delta's (actually it's less up to about year 9), his response.... don't worry about it we will all be captains by then! I am truly mortified at the ignorance being displayed by our President and BOD. After reading that letter I am convinced without a doubt that the BOD is in way over their collective heads![/quote]

How about the "increased pilot pension inputs by the company, and the 401K match means a brighter future for all of us" part.

I understand the 401K match but can someone explain to me what he means by increased pension inputs? Is 10.5% to 10.5% an increase or am I missing something?

 

[Captzaahlie]

(A United Airlines Airbus Pilot wrote this)

An Open letter from a Pilot to CEO Glen Tilton:

Recently a lot has been said and written in the press concerning pilots' salaries and compensation. We have been told about how much it will cost our company, our job has been compared to others, and various subtle and not so subtle threats and intimidation tactics have been hurled at our group. In light of the current situation, please permit me, a pilot, to give you a small glimpse into my world.

Don't compare my job to other jobs:

. How many Boardrooms explode over Long Island Sound?
. How many meetings conclude with hundreds of dead bodies?
. How many trucks cost $82 million dollars? (Truck Drivers)
. How many Doctors spend half the month away from their families?
. Do the children of media representatives cry when Daddy puts on his uniform to go to work because they know he'll be gone for a week?
. How many salesmen lose their jobs because they have high blood pressure?
. How many lawyers spend Christmas alone in a crash pad?
. When your spouse is watching TV and the program is interrupted does he/she momentarily freeze in fear for what they might hear?

There is not another profession in the world where the consequences for mistakes are so catastrophic and unforgiving.

The Price:

. I pay the price when somebody loads full oxygen containers in the cargo hold.
. I pay the price when a terrorist has a bone to pick.
. I pay the price when weather forecasters err in their assessment of the weather.
. I pay the price when engineers design a fuel pump not quite correctly.

You Speak of the Cost:

. Ask the CEO of ValueJet the cost of a DC-9 buried in the Everglades.
. Ask Fred Smith the cost to scrape a DC-10 and MD-11 from the runways at Stewart and Newark.
. Ask Korean Airlines the cost of a 747 that didn't quite make the runway at Guam.
. Ask Fine Air the cost to clean up a DC-8 off a Miami street.
. Ask Bob Crandall the cost of a B-757 impacting a Columbian mountain.
. And if not for their cool, calm professionalism, what could have been the
cost of a UAL B-777 that lost oil pressure over the middle of the Pacific Ocean and limped to Hawaii on a single engine? How much were they worth to you that night? Industry standard or 25% below?

When you try to intimidate me, Remember :

. It was I, who flew Cobra gunships in the jungles of 'Vietnam' while you worked on your master's degree.
. It is I, who sits alone at the tip of an F-18 in the silent instant before I am catapulted over a cold, dark sea, while you sleep peacefully in your bed.
. It was I, who one night watched my wings grow heavy with ice, miles from the safety of the nearest airport, praying that I had enough fuel to find clear skies, while you watched Monday Night Football.
. It was I, who flew a C-130 into Panamanian gunfire, while you decorated your Christmas tree in 1989.
. It was I, who faced head-on the fourth largest army in the world over the deserts of Iraq and brought it to its knees, while you watched it on CNN.
. It was I, who landed an A-6 on a floating piece of tarmac no bigger than your backyard, while you mowed yours.
. It was I, who orbited in unarmed tankers over enemy territory to replenish others sworn to protect you.
. It was I, who watched missiles and bullets blossom in my face, yet didn't turn and run, while you watched the flowers blossom in you garden.
. It was I, who buried a friend.
. It was I, who knows a little boy who will never play catch with his dad, so that you may play with you grandchild.

Sir, please don't try to intimidate ME. I am not your enemy, I am your asset, an asset that has experienced and accomplished things few dare to try. Realize this and there are few obstacles we can't overcome.

 

[Just thinking]

Union needs to allow rebuttal statements to be posted on the uniion website. Professional, to the point and with no emotion... factual information so that the union can make and informed decision. It is OUR union and OUR website. I will be bringing this up at the roadshow today. DEMAND this.

 

[captainj]

When can I vote NO so I can stop thinking about this pos ta.

 

[Lear70]

When can I vote NO so I can stop thinking about this pos ta.

They keep avoiding that question, even though they promised to open the polls once they put out the T.A.

 

[Dashcaptain]

They said the voting will open around the 15th or 16th and go until the middle of July. Contract, if voted in (God help us), would be effective in August roughly.

Just say no!!!!

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

what happen to it being voted on now, then the polls would close on June 28.