AirTran pilots will own the SW upgrades

[fr8doggie]

You'll see

Oohhh. It's a big secret. OK then.

Truly, I hope you get significant gains. I doubt you'll get them unless you "bring the pain". I'm not talking strike.

 

[PCL_128]

You'll see

Ha! Sort of like President Nixon's "secret plan" to get out of Vietnam, huh? You do make me laugh, wavey.

 

[humveedriver]

I disagree with your last sentence above pcl

There is leverage and we can and will generate it if and when we need to.

You sit over at air tran and claim to "know" what Swapa pilots think-
How about you get uber opinionated after youve transitioned

I don't look at pprune, swapa forum or jetway talk as a valid test for what pilots are willing to do. When flights start getting cancelled and the only way any open gets picked up is through premium, then I would say the pilot group has found it's voice.

 

[PCL_128]

Even that's not enough. You need to be willing to embarrass the company. That's the only thing that will make them sit up and take notice. Until hundreds of SWA pilots are willing to show up to the airport and get photographed by both management and the press while walking around in circles holding up signs that paint SWA in a bad light, they'll get nowhere on getting a significant raise.

 

[HowardBorden]

You see, Howard? This is what I'm talking about. wavey is exactly the kind of delusional mind you're dealing with over there who thinks that not only is he entitled to a 10% raise, but that it's actually possible.

I'm expecting close to that, I'm just not expecting it all to be in the form of hourly rate raise. I think a 10% raise in my compensation package is easily achievable throughout the next contract. When I'm talking raise I'm not so naive that I expect it all in the form of an hourly pay rate increase. In the end my only barometer is my total compensation package. If my W2 grows I am not really concerned with exactly how we got there.

We are producing record profits. We have achieved 2.1% over the coveted ROIC that our fearless leader has been chasing for a decade. The company is currently moving off its "flattish" contract stance. Investors are getting restless with 8 union contracts in negotiations. The time is now to reward those that have given so much to allow this company to achieve its goals. Increases will come.

 

[PCL_128]

I agree that a 10% increase in total compensation is reasonable and achievable, as long as you're not trying to do it with rates. Hell, you should be able to achieve half of that with just retirement. I just don't think your pilot group is as understanding as you are about the rate component. We got caught with our pants down at AirTran during bargaining because our pilots got stuck on this "Alaska plus" idea, and the NMB simply wasn't willing to entertain Alaska pay rates for us in the first year of the new contract. I know you don't like the "manage expectation" mantra, but that really is what SWAPA needs to do.

 

[Roomwithaview]

You're now near the top of the heap because everyone else took that fall, so you're in the same world as everyone else in traditional bargaining. You can't ride any coattails of the legacies. You either generate leverage for yourself, or you accept that there won't be any significant raises. And from what I've seen, there just aren't any SWA pilots who are willing to do what it takes to generate leverage. They're all too busy drinking the kool aid and talking about what a swell guy Gary is.

The most honest thing I've ever seen you write. That nails it in a nut shell.

Then this:

Even that's not enough. You need to be willing to embarrass the company. That's the only thing that will make them sit up and take notice. Until hundreds of SWA pilots are willing to show up to the airport and get photographed by both management and the press while walking around in circles holding up signs that paint SWA in a bad light, they'll get nowhere on getting a significant raise.

IMHO the VAST majority here don't have the stomach for it. Hence Sideletters 1 thru 18 where we gave every ounce of leverage we had away with all the koolies on the BOD telling us, "Gary will take care of us in Section Six".

There ain't much that I can agree with PCL on but the reality of where we are is right in those two post and many here are going to have to decide if they're ready to pull their big boy pants on when they come to work.

 

[redflyer65]

I agree that a 10% increase in total compensation is reasonable and achievable, as long as you're not trying to do it with rates. Hell, you should be able to achieve half of that with just retirement. I just don't think your pilot group is as understanding as you are about the rate component. We got caught with our pants down at AirTran during bargaining because our pilots got stuck on this "Alaska plus" idea, and the NMB simply wasn't willing to entertain Alaska pay rates for us in the first year of the new contract. I know you don't like the "manage expectation" mantra, but that really is what SWAPA needs to do.

PCL,

I'd like to admit that's a good post. We are going for 10% across the board, spread out on retirement, reserve and rates. It may be a long road to get there, but I don't see this NC caving and sending us some half ass deal. They have a very solid idea what will make it out of the negotiating room. So even the koolaid drinkers won't have a chance to vote on a POS.

 

[fr8doggie]

PCL,

I'd like to admit that's a good post. We are going for 10% across the board, spread out on retirement, reserve and rates. It may be a long road to get there, but I don't see this NC caving and sending us some half ass deal. They have a very solid idea what will make it out of the negotiating room. So even the koolaid drinkers won't have a chance to vote on a POS.

If that's true and you aren't willing to bring the pain you will be negotiating for a very long time.

 

[PCL_128]

If that's true and you aren't willing to bring the pain you will be negotiating for a very long time.

Yep. Refusing to bring out a bad TA is all well and good, but unless you're willing to do something to force a good TA, you'll just sit around for an eternity in bargaining, because the NMB certainly won't help.