AirTran pilots will own the SW upgrades

[HowardBorden]

And he says this long after SWAPA has started representing the pilots who will benefit from it! You do realize that if SWAPA does anything now to change the provisions of the lance captain program that SWAPA is going to be sued, and SWAPA will probably lose, right?

Again, you show the complete and total lack of knowledge about a subject.

You do realize that we barely held on to the Lance program last section 6, right?

You do realize that any changes to the Lance program will be part of an entire section 6 package that will require membership ratification, right?

In the long run, the Lance program is destined for the scrap heap. Management wants it gone because the Feds and the insurance carriers want it gone. All of this was transpiring looong before any AirTran acquisition ever was ever publicly discussed.

SWAPA's position has been pro Lance since I got here yet the program has been downsized and deteriorated. I like the Lance program and think it should be continued however I realize the realities of the opposition are great and it will eventually be phased out completely.

 

[waveflyer]

There is a long history of debate about the lance program-

Now, there are senior captains who want it gone and there is everyone else who realizes that the lance program is the starter for our entire trip trading market.

I hope it stays- it benefits far more pilots than just who is lancing at this particular time-
Senior captains have someone to give captain trips to in order to clear their board for premium. Lances give away senior FO trips that FOs wouldn't otherwise get. Everyone gets the flexibility of schedule that a vibrant market for trip trading provides.

When we had our first debate, I was only a few years in- I didn't realize how much reducing the lance program would affect me.
It seriously dampened my quality of life as a junior FO.

I look forward to lancing, but really argue it's existence from the POV that it benefits most everyone

 

[PCL_128]

Again, you show the complete and total lack of knowledge about a subject.

You do realize that we barely held on to the Lance program last section 6, right?

You do realize that any changes to the Lance program will be part of an entire section 6 package that will require membership ratification, right?

In the long run, the Lance program is destined for the scrap heap. Management wants it gone because the Feds and the insurance carriers want it gone. All of this was transpiring looong before any AirTran acquisition ever was ever publicly discussed.

SWAPA's position has been pro Lance since I got here yet the program has been downsized and deteriorated. I like the Lance program and think it should be continued however I realize the realities of the opposition are great and it will eventually be phased out completely.

I realize all of that, and none of it matters. As soon as one of your idiot elected reps was allowed to publish an article in an official union publication stating that the lance program wasn't worth fighting for because it would only benefit AirTran pilots, SWAPA openly invited a DFR lawsuit.

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

PCL,
where are you now? is ALPA still taking money from you back pocket even though they don't help you're cause anymore. Get off the pot and drink the cool aid.
just saying

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Most SW posters just don't get it and never will. Many AAI pilots feel cheated because they expected better in an arbitration. Given that whatever positives there might be in this for them (if any) don't matter because they expected MUCH MUCH more. Its like getting a $100 Christmas bonus when you expected $1000. Couple that that with the inability to capture a foothold in the ATL which has led to a very very small domicile there and these guys will NEVER EVER be happy or unify. Many I speak to are so pissed they are willing to burn WN to the ground not for contractual gains but just out of spite. I expect a huge increase in AOGS and sick calls.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Getto, and AAI pilots will never get that most SWA pilots got absolutely nothing from this deal and will have a continual loss until they retire.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

They might but they don't care. An arbitrator would have given them at least DOH (probably better) and they would have most likely kept all of the Capt seats with a fence around ATL all on the SWAPA contract. They don't give a crap about the effects of that on the non AAI pilots. They didn't get, it they feel cheated and bitter, they will always feel that way and a good number of them are more than willing to act on those feelings. Honestly in some ways I get their anger.

The roof the roof the roof is on fire.

 

[bluesideup1]

They might but they don't care. An arbitrator would have given them at least DOH (probably better) and they would have most likely kept all of the Capt seats with a fence around ATL all on the SWAPA contract. They don't give a crap about the effects of that on the non AAI pilots. They didn't get it they feel cheated and are bitter and always will.

Just because the AAI reps sold you relative and said DOH would be the least you would get doesn't mean it is SW fault you didn't get it. AAI had nothing to bargain with when it came to the purchase. Their contract was sub par, their pay rates were abysmal.

Of course you could put your head into the sand and not look at the two groups that did go to Arbitration. BOTH OF THEM GOT WORSE THEN WHAT THE AAI PILOTS GOT THROUGH NEGOTIATION.

To say you would have gotten DOH with Arbitration is just asinine as it clearly didn't happen in either of the other ones that went to arbitration.

Please put the blame on those who oversold what the AAI pilots were capable of getting.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Blue first I'm not former AAI. Second historically that pilot SLIs are arbitrated much differently than other work groups. Look at Alaska/Jet America for the extremes that arbitrators are willing to ignore to prevent a shuffle of seats and added training cost to the acquiring carrier. What constitutes "fair and equitable" seems to very greatly depending on your job description and the corporate costs associated with moving people around. Based on precedent AAI expected to end up with DOH+ and seat protection. It could have gone down differently but precedent dictates that it probably wouldn't have.

 

[redflyer65]

ALPA simply overplayed their hand. The first agreement was agreed to by their MC. Did anyone twist their arm in that deal? The MEC made the biggest blunder of all time. You get what you negotiate.