Airtran Opens App Window April 1st 0900

[DonVerita]

Raj you fly for Air Tranny.

Nah, he flys for a Fractional but likes to come over to the Majors board and throw stones.

 

[dicko]

Man isn't that the truth.

Nothing against AirTran pilots but your pay scales are killing the industry average for size of aircraft. I know that you are in a heated contract right now and are doing something about it but you have so far to go. With most regional get captains having been at the regionals so long due to lack of hiring this decade I would bet they would fair better to stay where they are. It would take 15 years to make back lost money for a regional captain at a good regional with your pay. Most are old enough for that to be a deal breaker. Good luck.

Snicker ..........

Are you the tool DAL Captain who lectures AirTran jumpseaters ? If not ... Enjoy the 15 year upgrade on a DC9 and thanks for the support.

I have never seen a more placid kool aid drinking group than DAL. Bend over and enjoy.

 

[DeucesWild]

My math is correct.

Huh??? 0.012% is NOT the same as 1.2%. One of them is 100 times greater than the other. Quite an error in most people's books! And I could care less, only pointed it out because you were calling someone a dumbass, based on your incorrect math.

 

[MINIME]

I disagree. DALPA has done the best they could do with the hand they have been delt. An 1113 ruling by some anti labor judge would have sent DAL payscales to kingdom come. I think they negotiated in order to avoid some judge from setting his/her agenda on the group. They avoided a disaster. Very prudent in my view. Also, being a FO at DAL does not always mean food stamp wages. I predict that they'll do even better in their next contract. Perhaps even fixing some of the scope issues.

AAI payscales are bringing down the industry average. Like it or not, it is what it is. I know that the pilot group has finally got it together and are putting up a formidable fight. I doubt there's anyone in the pilot community who will not support you in that venture. AAI's benefit will eventually be everyone's benefit, directly or indirectly. That's the way it works. Again, wether we like it or not.

It is my hope that the pilot group is unified and that you show the community for the first time in a long time how it's done. You have many advantages that some of your predecessors did not have. One; ALPA needs a big win. Two; you now have all the resources you may need. Three; your company is profitable. They show that by the filings and their executives' compensation packages. Four; you will get to use the only real weapon a pilot group has if need be, a strike. You now have a NMB that has an open ear for labor. I can't honestly say we had that in the last nine years. When it's all said and done, the ball is your court. I suspect you'll make good use of it.

 

[maxblast72]

Based on last years numbers(2009) SEC filings. Airtran's total labor costs were 488 million. With 23,9294,117 ASM's that comes to 2.10 CASM for labor. With the current proposal(based on last years numbers) it would in icrease labor CASM to 2.35. 11% increase in labor costs. They can afford it.

Using your numbers of a cost increase of $0.0025 per ASM, our new contract would cost Airtran around $60 million per year (based on 24 billion ASMs per year). Add on top of that $35-40 million for signing bonus. Airtran management ain't going to fork over that kind of money without a fight or serious threat of work stoppage. The strike vote is going to be a crucial step in convincing our management we are serious. The next 3-6 months is also a great time to be topping off your strike savings fund.

 

[coonass]

Wow the online app was only open for 28 hours. I wonder how many apps they received this time.

 

[Lear70]

Using your numbers of a cost increase of $0.0025 per ASM, our new contract would cost Airtran around $60 million per year (based on 24 billion ASMs per year). Add on top of that $35-40 million for signing bonus.

It's not going to be quite that high for a total dollar amount in the end. Remember, that's the PROPOSAL, which is, of course, artificially high to give room to negotiate. That said, I'd be highly shocked if the total sticker price to a T.A. that's put out for ratification didn't fall somewhere in the $150-170 Million range over a 4 year Agreement.

And people wonder why management is so mad at me after starting the fight to kill T.A.'s 1 and 2 which were less than 1/10th of that price...

Airtran management ain't going to fork over that kind of money without a fight or serious threat of work stoppage. The strike vote is going to be a crucial step in convincing our management we are serious. The next 3-6 months is also a great time to be topping off your strike savings fund.

Ayuh.

Wow the online app was only open for 28 hours. I wonder how many apps they received this time.

I wouldn't worry. It's been up and down that whole time. If I were a betting man, I'd say it'll likely be open again on Monday sometime. Keep trying, and good luck!

p.s. Management reads these boards, as does HR. No, I'm not kidding. I'd change your screen name to something more professional than "coonass" or never, ever, ever tell anyone who you are on here (it was one of OUR pilots who outed my identity to management during the pilot group's struggle to kill T.A. 1 - he wanted it to pass).

Management keeps a list of who people are on here and it's come back to bite at least 4 pilots I know of. No lie. I've seen the union files on it during my grievance fight. Just FYI.

 

[GuppyWN]

2500 turbine with 500 121 PIC is huge. While you're at it why don't you put on the application "we want experienced pilots who won't let us push them around and will demand industry standard pay."

Tacitcal error in my eyes but good for Tranny guys.

Gup

 

[PCL_128]

It's not going to be quite that high for a total dollar amount in the end. Remember, that's the PROPOSAL, which is, of course, artificially high to give room to negotiate.

Actually, I would guess the proposal is quite a bit more than that. Remember, that's just straight pay rates, but we've also got retirement, insurance, rigs, etc.

 

[mad691]

Using your numbers of a cost increase of $0.0025 per ASM, our new contract would cost Airtran around $60 million per year (based on 24 billion ASMs per year). Add on top of that $35-40 million for signing bonus. Airtran management ain't going to fork over that kind of money without a fight or serious threat of work stoppage. The strike vote is going to be a crucial step in convincing our management we are serious. The next 3-6 months is also a great time to be topping off your strike savings fund.

With the added bonus numbers you put in that would make bring our total CASM to 9.71 cents. Total labor cost per ASM would be 2.35 cents. Next lowest competetor is SWA with 10.29CASM(2009 numbers). SWA labor costs per ASM was 3.54 cents in 2009. Still can can afford it.

FUPM

 

[Lear70]

Actually, I would guess the proposal is quite a bit more than that. Remember, that's just straight pay rates, but we've also got retirement, insurance, rigs, etc.

Wow, then it's definitely higher than what I had estimated just from base pay rates, a decrease in our medical costs, and retirements. I haven't seen the rigs yet and don't know what that would do to staffing, but if it's significant, then yeah, it's going to get a bit closer to SWA CASM, that's for certain.

Again, no wonder they're so pi$$ed... But, that's life. The cost of doing business goes up, payroll is no different. As long as they can afford it (and they obviously can), then I see nothing to stand in the way of those reasonable demands.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

2500 turbine with 500 121 PIC is huge. While you're at it why don't you put on the application "we want experienced pilots who won't let us push them around and will demand industry standard pay."

Tacitcal error in my eyes but good for Tranny guys.

Gup

At least they'll get good qualified pilots, rather than the old "checkbook club."
You know the ones that could only get hired at certain companies becasue of their pft program!

 

[thunderworm]

i must have missed it but how many are they planning to hire. I thought it was 2500tt 1000 turbine 500 121. seems pretty standard to me.

 

[Lear70]

Word on the street is 95 this year.

As far as pretty standard, no, the 121 PIC requirement isn't at very many carriers. PIC Turbine? Absolutely. PIC 121? Not really. The 121 time really cuts out the corporate/charter guys, which sucks for them.

I'm not sure why our HR has that in place, maybe to make sure there isn't a culture shock from the change to our company, but like Guppy said, it has the unintended consequence of making sure that every pilot they hire knows full well the problems of Scope givebacks, as well as being keenly aware of what an industry-average paycheck looks like, hence the defeat of the last two T.A.'s, the removal of the NPA, and the push for a reasonable contract.

 

[dude100]

I can't find the link to apply on the Airtran site. Anyone know where it is?