AirTran MEC: Whine on!

[Luv2BFlyin]

You mean Volaris, which we no longer codeshare with? Similar to your 'codeshare' with SkyWest that we nixed in the bud. Thanks for the reminder.

I think it was the AAI CEO that said he did as much as he could with AirTran and was pretty much against the growth wall at that point with the money left in the bank vs. the debt owed.

But somehow after the SW announcement, AirTran was the premiere airline to get hired at and was a wonderful place to work. Revisionist history at it's best. I must admit, I knew it was coming as soon as the announcement was made.

Oh, you got me. Is WN still codesharing with AT? Are you going international yet, besides SJU and ferrying aircraft for MX?

BTW, long before the announcement, AT was a permanent home for the majority of us. I'm flying with a lot more people looking to leave now than ever before the announcement.

 

[texman]

Humm,

I agree with the -200 mentality. After 2015 their will only be 70 -300 left.

 

[humveedriver]

Humm,

I agree with the -200 mentality. After 2015 their will only be 70 -300 left.

And all in my domicile. My transition experience is prob amplified from being an early AT 737 cappy to flying with the most senior airman and oldest aircraft at SWA. You throw in a brand new terminal with Whataburger and Campisi's pizza though and I'll fly the round dials till the desert call for them.

 

[Ty Webb]

Guess who flew into all those places except DEN before AirTran? Guess who was doing international before AirTran. That's right American Eagle. That is where I came from. AE was flying to more destination, served more airports, had a larger pilot group and I made close to what an AT captain was making. They are also considered a Major airline by the DOT.

I can't believe this is the warped logic coming from a Major Airline pilot used to justify why they deserved DOH or better.

It is not much higher pay scale, better working conditions, never furloughed, more stable, more bases, more pilots, more aircraft, better relationship with management, better contract, Etc.

No, it is about who went to LGA, BOS, DEN, PHL and international first. By that standard if AE was to buy you then you would have taken a staple since they are obviously far superior aviators since they did all that first?

Your coworker was the one who started throwing the "regional" word around, buddy, not me, but it was very ironic, considering that SWA's route map more closely resembles a "regional" than . . . . a regional.

Btw, I'm sure you would like to think that AirTran and Eagle were similar, but you couldn't be further from the truth; just ask any of the 100 or so guys who we hired from Eagle. Even under our 2001 Contract, our 12th year (top) pay was 150% of your 12th yr pay. Now it is more like 200%, and no one tried to check my prostate before offering employment, either.

 

[madjack]

It's good to be proud of what you do...but if u think your peers at DAL think AAI is aTrue "international" carrier, read back a couple hundred entries ago...maybe GK played us all but he was able to use our respective insecurities to make this integration happen, I'm sorry for the lost years in seniority, but it was the only way it was going to work.

 

[waveflyer]

Please...you're giving me gas. I've read enough of your postings to know exactly how you think of the AAI group.

And what exactly do I think?
Since you're so knowledgable in that area...

I'll tell you as simply as I can. You have great guys there and you have dicks- just like us- what you didn't have was an equal career, job or stable position in this industry.

Excuse me for tiring of FLIGHT INFO AT guys constant whining-
Yeah- I don't think much if your thoughts, freight dog, or PCL- but I carry ZERO prejudices with me at work

 

[canyonblue]

Merger? I'm not seeing any UCAL like airplanes painted in memory AT colors? We still having trouble understanding the term acquisition?

Kind of like how the British "merged" with the Native Americans.

 

[carl p]

FI, the one constant in an industry of uncertainty... Glad to know some things will never change lol.

 

[canyonblue]

Gary Kelly knew what he was doing when he bought AirTran . . . two and a half years later, you still haven;t figured it out.

I think I have. It's more and more like the scene from JFK:

Well that's the real question, isn't it? Why? The how and the who is just scenery for the public. Airtran, the 717's, Delta, the drawdown in Atlanta. Keeps 'em guessing like some kind of parlor game, prevents 'em from asking the most important question, why? Why was AirTran aquired? Who benefited? Who has the power to cover it up? Who?

 

[tomgoodman]

Kind of like how the British "merged" with the Native Americans.

That wasn't really a merger; more like an "Occupy" movement that got out of hand.

 

[scoreboardII]

Rip Van Winkle? How dare you sir, SWA has defiantly not awakened....

 

[redflyer65]

Oh, you got me. Is WN still codesharing with AT? Are you going international yet, besides SJU and ferrying aircraft for MX?

BTW, long before the announcement, AT was a permanent home for the majority of us. I'm flying with a lot more people looking to leave now than ever before the announcement.

Yes Luv, Southwest is codesharing with AT because the pilots of SWAPA voted for that with SL10. We voted for Gary getting this going as fast as he was willing to. The timeline for that is Jan 2015. After that, the codeshare ends and everyone needs to SWAPA pilots. Taking too long? I think so, but that's what we voted for.

Just like that first Southwest sticker put on the AAI plane. It was against our CBA, so it was removed. Just like your feed from Skywest, it was stopped.

Your leaving a company (Airtran) that had little to no scope, to one that has the best in the industry. Your leaving a company that had up and down financials, to one that has the best in the industry(for 42 years). Your leaving one that had a relatively poor CBA, to one of the best. The pilots of Souwest have worked very hard to get the CBA that you will be working under. You do understand that, right?

The differences are night and day.

PS - As a reminder, I don't think all the Airtran CA's should have lost their seats, but they didn't ask me. I think the seniority list should have showed what seat you hold, or not hold.

PSS - People looking to leave Southwest? It's happened before and it will happen again. I wish them luck. It might make alot of sense if they are young and on the very bottom. It's a personal preference. The numbers could get pretty interesting knowing Gary is going to pay you at your original (AAI) longevity date. That equates to quite a bit every month to walk away from, but to each their own. (Like walking away from a 170k job to start over)

 

[redflyer65]

Some of us lost 30% off DOH as well. At over 12yrs, I'm slotted in with 8yr guys. Is this what you'd rather see or hear?

Looking from the outside...

Airtran at 12yrs, or

SW at 8yrs?

I think most pilots would take the latter. You think otherwise?

 

[redflyer65]

I can see this happening at SWA when the MAX comes onboard. The "that's the way we've always done it crowd" could potentionally be told to STFU. It will be an opportunity to write a coherent set of manuals that do not spread the information to the four winds. Other operational considerations like the AC power scenario amongst others could be done away with. At SWA the old phrase is "fly it like a -200". AirTran would say "it's just like the -9 except..".

I'm grateful to work for stronger carrier. One of the better AT execs who did not come over called SWA the Rip Van Winkle airline. I would like to see SWA's spirit and customer service survive, but lose the -200 mentality and embrace modern technogy.

Sorry I missed your post Humvee.

We joke about 'fly it like a 200', but the reality is we haven't done that in years. I really don't think the max will create any subset. But that's just my opinion. I think management will just add it to the regular lines like the 800. I don't think it will really be that different to operate. More efficent. Larger screens and I think the overhead will be similiar if not the same. I think we have been embracing the modern technology over the past 5 years. ie....autothrottles and full RNP approaches.

I'm glad you made that statement about a stronger carrier, because you are right. And like Wave said, I will not have any predjudice against any former Airtran guys unless they prove otherwise. I'll treat everyone as Southwest pilots and really don't care to look for any differences. I'm ready to pull together, but I guess I get sucked into the BS from time to time.

 

[Ty Webb]

Your leaving a company (Airtran) that had little to no scope, to one that has the best in the industry.

Your leaving a company that had up and down financials, to one that has the best in the industry(for 42 years). Your leaving one that had a relatively poor CBA, to one of the best. The pilots of Souwest have worked very hard to get the CBA that you will be working under. You do understand that, right?

It's pretty obvious that you have never read our contract. Do yourself a favor and read it before commenting further. You may surprise yourself.

 

[waveflyer]

Ty

Are you really trying to convince everyone how great it was at AT until swa came and ruined everything?

 

[27 driver]

Ty

Are you really trying to convince everyone how great it was at AT until swa came and ruined everything?

Wave,
For guys like Ty AirTran was great. I don't know him personally but he probably upgraded in less than 3 years. Made a decent salary. Probably never sat reserve. So looking at it from that perspective what is not to like? SWA did ruin that for his demographic. Why is it so hard for you to realize that some were very happy at AAI just as some are very happy at SWA. Life is what you make it. I guess we just need to walk a mile in each others shoes to put thins into perspective. Mergers suck. Lives are permanently changed. Some for the better...some for the worse.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Most for the worst...that is if you are on any type of seniority list! The only ones that truly make out are the managers.

 

[ATLplt]

Ty

Are you really trying to convince everyone how great it was at AT until swa came and ruined everything?

Ty never said those exact words, but many people have those exact feelings about the whole thing. I know it's hard for you to wrap your head around the fact that many of us actually liked AirTran, but it's the truth. Doesn't matter anymore though, my airline will cease to exist in a year and a half. Life goes on...

 

[carl p]

While I agree with your overall sentiment Red, Ty is correct our CBA is better than most...

 

[PRINCE AKEEM]

Isn't our current CBA at AirTran the one SWA gave us?

 

[freightdogfred]

And what exactly do I think?
Since you're so knowledgable in that area...

I'll tell you as simply as I can. You have great guys there and you have dicks- just like us- what you didn't have was an equal career, job or stable position in this industry.

Excuse me for tiring of FLIGHT INFO AT guys constant whining-
Yeah- I don't think much if your thoughts, freight dog, or PCL- but I carry ZERO prejudices with me at work

I'll say the same- Just about every guy I've met from SWA was super cool, I've drank with them in Mr C's, shot guns with them in Artesia, chased FA's with them in, well that was a long time ago. Everyone of them, great guys.

You? not so much. Your arrogant-ass attitude is what I can't stand, spouting off nonsense about Airtran of which you know nothing about. You think nothing of my thoughts, i think less of yours. So how bout you just go pound some sand up your ass, and call it a day.

Have a nice life

 

[ATLplt]

P

You? not so much. Your arrogant-ass attitude is what I can't stand, spouting off nonsense about Airtran of which you know nothing about. You think nothing of my thoughts, i think less of yours. So how bout you just go pound some sand up your ass, and call it a day.

Have a nice life

Ha! Free beers for you, Freddie.

 

[madjack]

Now that was a great argument

 

[Sacha]

Do happy Pilots vote 98% to Strike and shut down their Airline?

In the delusional world of certain AirTran Pilots........Yes.

 

[Ty Webb]

Do happy Pilots vote 98% to Strike and shut down their Airline?

In the delusional world of certain AirTran Pilots........Yes.

Sacha, give me a f'in break. It's called Unity.

Do you think the UAL Pilots in 2000 were unhappy with their careers?

How about Fedex, UPS, NWA, and every other Pilot Group that has struck or threatened to?

The fact that you would even ask such a stupid question speaks volumes.

 

[PropPiedmont]

Do happy Pilots vote 98% to Strike and shut down their Airline?

In the delusional world of certain AirTran Pilots........Yes.

There was enough Eastern presence at ArTran to keep those planes flying through the strike.

 

[waveflyer]

Nice
Oh Im having a good life. Believe that one man. If by arrogant you mean that I know my career was better than yours at AT- yeah- I'm "arrogant" by that definition. Im sorry i don't piss on the years of extra effort it took to get to the bottom of swa's list, than it did to get to the bottom of air Tran's.

That's exactly right- AT wont exist in a bit- I HAVE acknowledged that AT was a good fit for a few hundred of you. For the rest, it's who happened to hire you. I have friend's at republic that are staying- content with their life- and it's a pretty damn good life at that. For them- they have an argument. Doesn't mean their seniority is equal. Same size airplane- is Virgin America's seniority equal to yours? Should their #1 guy hired in 2006, be slotted next to yours hired in 1994, if you had bought them?

Are you going to HEAR that i understand being in the top qtr seniority is a very good thing- that your quick seniority played a big part in choosing to stat at AT and it sucks that a company so much bigger and older bought you- you had your niche and it was working well for you. i get it. Are you going to HEAR that this time, or do you want me to repeat myself.

But regardless of a few's good situation,there is no metric where your seniority was equal to southwest's seniority.

If that's arrogant than f it, I'm arrogant.

The arrogant thought is that you're so pissed you couldn't leapfrog ALL of us AFTER you got bought-
I started posting on this idiotic topic when PCL confirmed that ATALPA would not be satisfied with anything worse than date of hire. DOH was your WORST case scenario- straight from one of your highest ranking elected leaders.
Meaning: you would not accept less than an improvement on where your date of hire would've placed you on swa's list.
If you don't see the BS in that, nobody can help you and you better just steel yourself up for a sh/tty view on this for the rest of your life

That^^^^ unrealistic expectation is the source of any and all AT angst. Sorry if you don't like me calling that out.

 

[Sacha]

Well if was Unity you were all after, why didn't you all just have a BBQ and Brats get together?

So voting to Strike was a way for "Happy" Pilots to build Unity?

The fact that you would use such idiotic logic speaks volumes.....

The fact that you and PCL and Lear were running the Union using such idiotic logic speaks of a waste of Union Dues....

Perhaps you should have let all your Eastern Scabs run your "Union". Things couldn't have been worse now could it?

There is an upside of all your blathering though. Whenever I feel the need to criticize SWAPA for anything, all I have to do is think of Ty,Lear or PCL and the SWAPA dudes look like MIT Grads.....

MIT is a University....in Boston.....nevermind.

 

[scoreboardII]

I'd be careful about pissing on the strike vote idea, SWAPA is on the short bus toward "Unity" with the flattish wont fly campaign.