Airtran MEC voted no

[Empennage]

Not sure what side u r on, but don't throw in the towel yet. Arbitration is the end process. You never know.

I didn't say throw in the towel. I said it's out of your hands now. It's out of my hands. Your MEC solved that for you.

 

[Flycatcher99]

OMFG

The mutual respect was absent in this agreement.

Oh My Feking God that you don't see that.

Watch your mouth.

You don't like threats, eh? No one here is threatening you. Only trying to point out some possibilities. Of course, much of that is moot now, since neither you nor any if your fellow trannies have any say in the matter. Which is unfortunate for those of you who wanted the deal, who realized it was better than an acquired airline should ever hope for. Better than the staple that most of your guys would have taken a year ago. Refresh yourself on your own history.

Speaking of history, Lear indicated that regret is usually a waste of time. Not true, if one uses regret to learn from one's past. Too bad your mec didn't learn anything from the regret felt by frontier and muse pilots.

 

[Flycatcher99]

By the way, if this ends up going poorly for AAI, I'm not sure alpa will be able to survive the blowback, especially after their multiple failures of late. Wonder if pcl will still be bragging that "we are alpa".

 

[puddlejumper101]

Maybe. There is hope for that. But we need mutual respect from your 6000 strong first.

Peace.

respect is earned not given. ALPA has not really respected anything thus far. I think the respect will come, once ALPA is gone.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

Too bad your nc didn't learn anything from the regret felt by frontier and muse pilots.

Reviewing history:

Delta acquired NWA

You never bought Frontier.
In reference to above, when announcing AirTran transaction GK said publicly that pilots will not dictate the outcome of this merger.

Muse had 16 aircraft was around for 6 years and NEVER made money.

I'll add one more, ATA was a garage sale of assets in bankruptcy court not a merger.

It's like saying that SWA and Spirit are the same thing just because both provide low fares. (apples and bananas)

 

[texman]

I love that our rampers and FA's are more fired up than us. Had some come up to me today and said WTF. Funny!

 

[ron burgundy]

It was a good career choice, It was a good careeer choice...........Nope, nothing. I've been trying that for 23 years and it still doesn't work.

 

[puddlejumper101]

I love that our rampers and FA's are more fired up than us. Had some come up to me today and said WTF. Funny!

If there was a culture problem internally, this might have just fixed it.

 

[JT12345]

respect is earned not given.

Wow,

How did you get through the vetting process at SWA?

How do you treat people that don't work at Southwest?

When you go to buy a burger you must look down on those fastfood workers too because they have not earned your respect yet. What about the hotel van driver or the maid? You must look down on everyone around you outside your family and friends at home and at Southwest then?

 

[puddlejumper101]

Wow,

How did you get through the vetting process at SWA?

How do you treat people that don't work at Southwest?

When you go to buy a burger you must look down on those fastfood workers too because they have not earned your respect yet. What about the hotel van driver or the maid? You must look down on everyone around you outside your family and friends at home and at Southwest then?

not even close dude, let's don't mix apples and oranges. I am here to discuss what happened over there at Airtran. I wasn't here to talk about personal character. I don't know you, and you don't know me so don't go there. I have my views and you have yours.

Alpa has not really respected SWA or SWAPA...I never said YOU personally so don't go there.

 

[JT12345]

Watch your mouth.

You don't like threats, eh? No one here is threatening you. Only trying to point out some possibilities. Of course, much of that is moot now, since neither you nor any if your fellow trannies have any say in the matter. Which is unfortunate for those of you who wanted the deal, who realized it was better than an acquired airline should ever hope for. Better than the staple that most of your guys would have taken a year ago. Refresh yourself on your own history.

Speaking of history, Lear indicated that regret is usually a waste of time. Not true, if one uses regret to learn from one's past. Too bad your mec didn't learn anything from the regret felt by frontier and muse pilots.

It is not just AAI pilots saying there is a problem here. It is a lot of piers watching this go down in the industry.

BTW, there is still "say" here in this process for both groups. Don't just sit, and let things happen around you.

I wish you guys luck too in this. I really mean that. Sincerely.

 

[SWA/FO]

Anybody read side letter 8? :cartman:

WOW....

 

[ron burgundy]

respect is earned not given. ALPA has not really respected anything thus far. I think the respect will come, once ALPA is gone.

So the 4 guys from gulfstream that decided to change careers and become a pilot(whilst paying alot to do so) and then went and bought a type rating and now work at swa EARNED it. Okay.

 

[JT12345]

not even close dude, let's don't mix apples and oranges. I am here to discuss what happened over there at Airtran. I wasn't here to talk about personal character. I don't know you, and you don't know me so don't go there. I have my views and you have yours.

Alpa has not really respected SWA or SWAPA...I never said YOU personally so don't go there.

Well your response was to my post about mutual respect which had nothing to do with union views and ALPA.

I was talking about oranges and I still am. How this became about ALPA was your response to me dude. It was always about personal mutual respect. Thanks for clearing that up, and I would delete some of this if it was not to late for that.

Now you guys are exausting me after today and I understand you are upset this did not proceed further. I would be too.

 

[puddlejumper101]

It is not just AAI pilots saying there is a problem here. It is a lot of piers watching this go down in the industry.

BTW, there is still "say" here in this process for both groups. Don't just sit, and let things happen around you.

I wish you guys luck too in this. I really mean that. Sincerely.

This after personal attacks on your future co-worker, just because we don't agree?????

You guys have been getting Sh&$ sandwiches from your MGMT for years. We all knew that, and some of us were torn as to what would happen:

A. You guys would be releived to work for a MGMT team that has never turned on their own people. Breath of fresh air for you guys, along with better QOL reguardless of where you sit in the seniority list.

B. We trust no one, SWA is Forano and we are ALPA. No matter what we get, we can do better in Arbitration.

The problem is 1700 vs. 6000 who respect their MGMT. This might get fixed in Arbitration, but it's going to leave a scar. Case and point, you already insulted my character and don't even know me. See where this is headed?

 

[puddlejumper101]

So the 4 guys from gulfstream that decided to change careers and become a pilot(whilst paying alot to do so) and then went and bought a type rating and now work at swa EARNED it. Okay.

I don't know those four guys...I am not going to size them up without knowing them. What I do know is no one is entitled to anything. In one way or another we all pay...whether it's with time or money or both. So those four guys should not be respected? I might not agree with how they got here, but they did. So yeah, they did EARN it. I am sure there are Gulfstream guys in every major carrier out there. I know a few at Delta, so what's your point.

 

[JT12345]

What are you suppose to think when you look at the list and realize from it how your future brothers really feel towards you. You guys keep saying it on here that we have to earn something over there or prove ourselves to you.

I think we have already done it by out competing SWA in common markets.

Man I did not know how I was going to walk around there for the next 20 years especially if you guys downsized with protections that would go bye-bye from it.

Like I said before and reitrated on here the money is nice, but after about 75k to 100k other things are considered too.

We have friends calling us from other airlines that we would be crazy to take this deal and a laughing stock for years to come. Maybe they just want it to be hard for all of us, but from AAI perspective and even many of the yes votes this was so bad it was insulting.

 

[SplitBar]

Give em hell Air Tran. You guys deserve and are entitled to relative seniority at a minimum. Way to vote down the $hit $andwidh that swa tried to serve up. Best of luck guys.

 

[ron burgundy]

I don't know those four guys...I am not going to size them up without knowing them. What I do know is no one is entitled to anything. In one way or another we all pay...whether it's with time or money or both. So those four guys should not be respected? I might not agree with how they got here, but they did. So yeah, they did EARN it. I am sure there are Gulfstream guys in every major carrier out there. I know a few at Delta, so what's your point.

Posting in anger,sorrow,confusion,regret,apathy,mental disarray,in a glass case of emotion. Thank you for your time. Disregard.

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

You guys deserve and are entitled to relative seniority at a minimum.

At a minimum! You are delusional.

 

[puddlejumper101]

What are you suppose to think when you look at the list and realize from it how your future brothers really feel towards you. You guys keep saying it on here that we have to earn something over there or prove ourselves to you.

I think we have already done it by out competing SWA in common markets.

Man I did not know how I was going to walk around there for the next 20 years especially if you guys downsized with protections that would go bye-bye from it.

Like I said before and reitrated on here the money is nice, but after about 75k to 100k other things are considered too.

We have friends calling us from other airlines that we would be crazy to take this deal and a laughing stock for years to come. Maybe they just want it to be hard for all of us, but from AAI perspective and even many of the yes votes this was so bad it was insulting.

I guess we shall see, all I hope is once this is done that we can coexist. Maybe in 5 years all of us will be trying to figure out how to keep chinese pilots from flying in the States for cents on the dollar.

 

[On Your Six]

At a minimum! You are delusional.

The arbitrator will decide what is fair, primarily because your union couldn't offer something remotely reasonable.


OYS

 

[Flycatcher99]

Now you guys are exausting me after today and I understand you are upset this did not proceed further. I would be too.

Any angst you see here from SWA pilots is not because the deal is not proceeding further. What you are seeing is incredulity that after all the wheel greasing, after all the procrastination, indecision, and melodrama from alpa, after all the theatrics and leaks and disorganization we've witnessed, your mec still has the nerve (stupidity? naïveté?) to vote this deal down.

Trust me, you've made the day of many SWA pilots. Do I think we will do better in arbitration? Maybe, maybe not. But we do not fear that option. Like chase said, at the end of the day, I'm still a SWA pilot, making ridiculous coinage. I do hope your union didn't screw the pooch for you all, but I don't hope that to the neglect of our rightful seniority to the newcomers.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

The arbitrator will decide what is fair, primarily because your union couldn't offer something remotely reasonable.


OYS

OYS The offer was worked out between the AAI MC and SWAPA. It wasn't just a SWAPA offer as you would like to paint it. The Airtran MC must have thought it was fair or they wouldn't have signed off on it. The problem is that arbitrators ideas of fair and equitable don't seem to jive what most non lawyer types consider reasonable. The MEC wasn't voting on wether they thought the offer was fair they were voting on wether they thought they could get MORE in arbitration.
Congratulations it's a huge day for you. You were right and the rest of us were wrong. I will most likely spend the rest of my career as an F/O which will cost me $500,000 in lost income. Bet that makes you really happy.

 

[On Your Six]

Any angst you see here from SWA pilots is not because the deal is not proceeding further. What you are seeing is incredulity that after all the wheel greasing, after all the procrastination, indecision, and melodrama from alpa, after all the theatrics and leaks and disorganization we've witnessed, your mec still has the nerve (stupidity? naïveté?) to vote this deal down.

Trust me, you've made the day of many SWA pilots. Do I think we will do better in arbitration? Maybe, maybe not. But we do not fear that option. Like chase said, at the end of the day, I'm still a SWA pilot, making ridiculous coinage. I do hope your union didn't screw the pooch for you all, but I don't hope that to the neglect of our rightful seniority to the newcomers.

Most thought it was a bad deal, and they didn't like it. Get over it. 60% of their pilots go to the bottom 20% of the list? That doesn't sound acceptable, they weren't in BK like the Frontier pilots. GK wanted this deal, and the offer from SWAPA was weak. And, seniority is everything in this business.


OYS

 

[JT12345]

Maybe in 5 years all of us will be trying to figure out how to keep chinese pilots from flying in the States for cents on the dollar.

OMG

I worry about that.

+1

___________________

Average salery for same job:

US worker $40K
EURO worker $35K
Mexican worker $8k

Chinese worker $3k

Poverty level in China..... 50%

 

[JT12345]

Give em hell Air Tran. You guys deserve and are entitled to relative seniority at a minimum. Way to vote down the $hit $andwidh that swa tried to serve up. Best of luck guys.

Flamer here.

Move along. Nothing to see here.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

The MEC wasn't voting on wether they thought the offer was fair they were voting on wether they thought they could get MORE in arbitration..

Wrong! Many pilots stood up and demonstrated at the meeting why this agreement was not fair. MC members agreed out loud that the list "Sucks" but when combined with protections and restrictions is "the best they could negotiate as a merger committee." Not because they thought it was fair.

 

[JT12345]

Originally Posted by GhettoBeechjet
The MEC wasn't voting on wether they thought the offer was fair they were voting on wether they thought they could get MORE in arbitration..


Excuse me. I did not know you were a mind reader. Why are you a pilot then? More money in mind reading.

Did you talk to any AAI LECs even?

Ah the demonization and propaganda begins.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Wrong! Many pilots stood up and demonstrated at the meeting why this agreement was not fair. MC members agreed out loud the the list "Sucks" but when combined with protections and restrictions is "the best they could negotiate as a merger committee."

FAIR has nothing to do with it when we are locked in a system that has a high probabilty of adding to your already huge financial gains and a $500,000 loss to me. Bottom line you win big I lose because I made a poor decision to go to work for the most financially stable company in the industry with enough retirements to ensure I would get to the left seat.