Airtran MEC Update

[GuppyWN]

Airtran MEC update

[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]February 25, 2011[/FONT]


[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]As you probably know, on February 23, SWAPA and Southwest Airlines announced they had reached a final agreement on the terms of on an initial Transition Agreement, which SWAPA President Steve Chase forwarded to MEC Chair Linden Hillman later that evening. (Talks continue between SWAPA and SWA on a second Transition Agreement, which would cover waivers to Section 1 of the SWAPA CBA, in return for an equity stake for SWA pilots.)[/FONT]

[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]On Thursday, February 24, the Merger Committee, MEC officers, and our legal team held a conference call to discuss the content of the SWA-SWAPA agreement and to review appropriate responses, as well as related merger and transition issues. While the fact that SWAPA and Southwest management were negotiating a Transition Agreement was known, the Merger Committee would like to stress that this Transition Agreement was negotiated and concluded strictly between SWAPA and Southwest management. Despite ALPA’s repeated requests to SWAPA and Southwest management to hold four-party meetings and be included in talks on transition issues, we were not given the opportunity to participate in that process. Consequently, the headline in Southwest’s press release, which reads “Southwest Airlines Announces New AirTran Transition Agreement with Its Pilots' Union,” is highly misleading.[/FONT]

[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]While Southwest management has thus far been unwilling to engage in four-party discussions prior to the Date of Corporate Closure (DOCC), a review of recent merger history shows that four-party transition talks are both legal and customary, and make common sense, for the reasons outlined in the February 13, Merger Committee Update:[/FONT]

[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]“In most mergers, Transition Agreements are four-party documents, entered into by union representatives of both pilot groups and by both managements. Having one agreement that all parties sign helps prevent situations where the transition protections afforded one employee group, or the merger implementation plans of management, conflict with protections of another employee group and disputes, if any, can be efficiently resolved through a coordinated process.” [/FONT]

[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]Unfortunately, an initial reading of the SWAPA-SWA Transition Agreement leaves the distinct impression that the concerns expressed above were well-founded. In fact, it would appear that portions of the agreement may have the potential to create divisiveness and the perception, or reality, of unfair treatment during the transition, a time when the goal of all concerned should instead be to ensure the smooth, transparent, and harmonious integration of the two carriers.[/FONT]

[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]However, AirTran pilots should also know that, while transition talks and four-party agreements are not legally mandated, ALPA, the ALPA Merger Committee and our legal counsel will vigorously assert the numerous merger and transition-related protections already contained in our CBA, beginning with Section 1.D.2, which reads:[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]“The Company shall require that the Successor or Assign shall, as a condition of and prior to the closing of a transaction as described in Paragraph D.1., above, commit in writing to adhere to the provisions of this Agreement until changed pursuant to the Railway Labor Act.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]As has been previously mentioned, AirTran management has verbally committed itself to complying with its obligation under this section. However, as the DOCC is rapidly approaching, we have reminded our management of this requirement and that if we are not able to confirm, in the very near future, that such a document is executed, your MEC will be forced to resort to the available legal alternatives to enforce our Section 1 rights and to further confirm the contractual obligations of this and any future management at AirTran. [/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]In addition, as has also been previously reported, members of the SWAPA Merger & Acquisition (M&A) Committee will be in ATL on March 1 – 3 to continue talks with the ATN MC, with the goal of concluding a Process Agreement. Although consensus was reached early in negotiations on the majority of that document, the delay in reaching a final agreement is rooted in a disagreement on the issue of how to clearly spell out timelines for implementing a combined seniority list, a single CBA, single bargaining representative, and integrated airline operations.[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]The unwillingness, to date, of SWAPA representatives to agree to any specific point in time by which the integrated list will be implemented is troubling. While we understand that Southwest management may not have, until very recently, completed its planning on the sequence and timetable for integrating the two operations; a review of recent mergers, most of far greater complexity, leads one to the conclusion that an 18-month integration timeframe, of the sort envisioned in the ATN pilot CBA, is not unreasonable. Indeed, just yesterday Southwest issued a press release announcing that the FAA has approved the carrier’s plan to combine the operations of the two airlines and that management’s goal is to secure and operate under an FAA Single Operating Certificate in the first quarter of 2012. Reluctance on the part of SWAPA to offer clarity on the matter may also be related to the just-concluded SWAPA-SWA Transition Agreement talks, during which integration timelines were being discussed, and now, agreed upon.[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]But regardless of the reason, the consequences of agreeing to ambiguous language governing the implementation of the Integrated Seniority List (ISL) could be serious, and in the worst case, could lead to an indefinite and indefinable delay in the integration of the two carriers -- despite the obligation to complete that merger as set forth in our Section 1. That is an unlikely, but not an impossible scenario. Instead, a more likely consequence of an imprecise definition of integration timelines might be the temptation it could offer one side to claim that an ISL might never be implemented unless the other side agreed to its terms during the SLI process.[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]Finally, AirTran pilots should know that the Merger Committee is making every effort to conclude a Process Agreement; that we have never walked out of negotiations; and that we will never agree to language which would undermine the contractual and legal protections of the AirTran pilots. Members of the MEC have expressed their full support for that position, and as we have attempted to do thus far, we will continue to work with ALPA, the MEC, and our team of legal advisors, to provide you with additional details on the SLI and transition process soon as we are able to do so.[/FONT]

"No comment."
Gup

[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

 

[RLAblows]

"no comment" Then why post it?
For all of you that keep saying you don't want to destroy your "culture" at SWA, seems like you are doing a fine job of it yourselves.

 

[GoodTimes]

Give it a rest GUP.

 

[Crash Pad]

I don't really know any SWA guys... reading this board is fun. I feel like a Detroit Lions fan who walked into a Patriots bar. "My friends and I take a look around and say the patriots suck... Plenty of time for you ****************************** bags to get on our Lions band wagon."

Now there are one hundred ways to react to this. SWA seems like the type of crowd that screams "THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!! TOM BRADY IS THE GREATEST QB OF ALL TIME!!!"

In short you all look about as much fun to work with as a kick in the balls.

 

[Lear70]

I don't really know any SWA guys... reading this board is fun. I feel like a Detroit Lions fan who walked into a Patriots bar. "My friends and I take a look around and say the patriots suck... Plenty of time for you ****************************** bags to get on our Lions band wagon."

Now there are one hundred ways to react to this. SWA seems like the type of crowd that screams "THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!! TOM BRADY IS THE GREATEST QB OF ALL TIME!!!"

In short you all look about as much fun to work with as a kick in the balls.

Yeah, THAT will foster unity and brotherly love,,,

 

[Kharma Police]

Airtran MEC update





"No comment."
Gup

[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

Nice!, be sure and thank the d-bag AirTran pilot that forwarded it to you too!

 

[bravodude]

Nice!, be sure and thank the d-bag AirTran pilot that forwarded it to you too!

Just like our D-Bag SWA pilots who gave you guys our code to call in and listen to our conference calls. You need to RELAX, this is going to take a long time so sit back and enjoy. By the looks of things this should be a fun show to watch!

By the way whats the problem you got to see OUR transition agreement and we can't see your MEC response, well thats not fair and equitable is it?

 

[Kharma Police]

Just like our D-Bag SWA pilots who gave you guys our code to call in and listen to our conference calls. You need to RELAX, this is going to take a long time so sit back and enjoy. By the looks of things this should be a fun show to watch!

By the way whats the problem you got to see OUR transition agreement and we can't see your MEC response, well thats not fair and equitable is it?

I wasn't offended when Tom Winsor made statements on SWAPALUV which were construed as inflammatory by SOME of our pilots. I'm just concerned with the vocal knuckle draggers on both sides which might misinterpret obvious political statements.

 

[jonjuan]

Let the lawsuits begin. Get the popcorn, kiddos.

 

[redflyer65]

Kharma,

This is not a merger of equals. No matter how you guys try to spin it, its not. There's nothing political about it, just the facts.

What part of Tom's statements were false or misleading?

 

[redflyer65]

Let the lawsuits begin. Get the popcorn, kiddos.

Lawsuits over what specifically?

 

[jonjuan]

Lawsuits over what specifically?

Ask USAPA the same question.

 

[CFIT]

Alpa just got it's ass handed to it.

 

[Kharma Police]

Kharma,

This is not a merger of equals. No matter how you guys try to spin it, its not. There's nothing political about it, just the facts.

What part of Tom's statements were false or misleading?

I didn't say any of Tom Winsor's statements were "false or misleading", just that they were construed by a few AirTran pilots as being combative; especially since the public SWAPALUV website was advertised as a bridge forming site for the two groups. My Union made an internal response to recent events and it made its way on this website by a Southwest pilot, go figure for what purpose.

.......and yes, I understand this is not a merger of equals, I will try to not make eye contact and will bow and have our FAs curtsy in your presence.

 

[jonjuan]

it's ass

Another Einstein among us...

 

[redflyer65]

And parts of the MEC response are completely false. ALPA at it's best.

I find it hard to believe that ALPA doesn't know the facts, but there it is in black and white. And many of the line pilots will believe whatever was put out. Sad.

 

[Kharma Police]

And parts of the MEC response are completely false. ALPA at it's best.

I find it hard to believe that ALPA doesn't know the facts, but there it is in black and white. And many of the line pilots will believe whatever was put out. Sad.

Ahhhh.....yes I see!, everything on your side is the truth, while every statement on my side is false.

 

[redflyer65]

Good one. I love the debating skills of you and Jonjuan.

 

[Kharma Police]

Good one. I love the debating skills of you and Jonjuan.

There is nothing to debate but if it makes you feel better, you are the big winner.

 

[General Lee]

AT guys, just make sure you do the SLI with arbitrators. SWAPA may try to force you into an SLI, but just refuse and go for arbitration. IF they don't want to show the LUV, then don't show it back. USAir II, here we go!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[chase]

A couple of givens as I read the TA and the response from the AAI MEC.

Two different pilot groups are engaged in negotiations to help their respective pilot groups to the max extent possible exclusive of the other groups benefits (no duh!).

Each have different opinions on the Transition Agreement; that makes perfect sense.

Both are speaking to their members and expressing their thoughts, concerns, pluses and minuses. To do otherwise would be foolish and not within their charter.

Each group of elected officials/negotiating members must deal with the political, economic and operational issues that in many cases are outside their control.

It is also only the 2nd or 3rd inning in a 9 inning game; we are all a long way from the final outcome with many more turns (many unpredictable to come I'm sure).

Getting excited and stringing together long opinions about what will or won't happen is as futile as predicting the final outcome of a 9 inning game after one rotation of the batting order.

AAI responded just as SWAPA would've or any union if faced with similar circumstances.

SWAPA negotiated in the same manner as AAI would've for a TA they positively felt benefited the pilots currently on the SWAPA seniority list....what else should've they have done?

AAI MEC has communicated with their members they aren't pleased with how things have gone down so far with respect to the TA; no shock since SWA rejected their request to discuss TA related issues. I hope no one thought AAI would find that experience positive?

I still look forward (if circumstances play out) to fly and work alongside AAI crewmembers and welcome you all to what will be a highly profitable airline and career for everyone.

Don't get discouraged or over enthusiastic that one side is winning nor that your team is losing but clearly communicate with each respective elected officials to your concerns and interests.

Back to your regular programming. :beer:

And as always, we have the streaker running across the field (GL) trying to get the attention and inflame the crowd. Leaving the game to those who are playing is just too much for some I guess

 

[RedDogC130]

please quit bringing common sense into FI...that detracts from the fun. Thanks

 

[Juniority]

It is also only the 2nd or 3rd inning in a 9 inning game

Actually, it appears we can't agree whether it's the 2nd or 3rd inning of an Aquisition or Merger (SWAPA thinks it's an aquisition and ALPA thinks it's a merger).

AAI responded just as SWAPA would've or any union if faced with similar circumstances

Circumstances? How can you talk circumstances when you can't even agree on the definition of the situation (it's that aquisition vs. merger thing again).

 

[sniper]

a couple of givens as i read the ta and the response from the aai mec.

Two different pilot groups are engaged in negotiations to help their respective pilot groups to the max extent possible exclusive of the other groups benefits (no duh!).

Each have different opinions on the transition agreement; that makes perfect sense.

Both are speaking to their members and expressing their thoughts, concerns, pluses and minuses. To do otherwise would be foolish and not within their charter.

Each group of elected officials/negotiating members must deal with the political, economic and operational issues that in many cases are outside their control.

It is also only the 2nd or 3rd inning in a 9 inning game; we are all a long way from the final outcome with many more turns (many unpredictable to come i'm sure).

Getting excited and stringing together long opinions about what will or won't happen is as futile as predicting the final outcome of a 9 inning game after one rotation of the batting order.

Aai responded just as swapa would've or any union if faced with similar circumstances.

Swapa negotiated in the same manner as aai would've for a ta they positively felt benefited the pilots currently on the swapa seniority list....what else should've they have done?

Aai mec has communicated with their members they aren't pleased with how things have gone down so far with respect to the ta; no shock since swa rejected their request to discuss ta related issues. I hope no one thought aai would find that experience positive?

I still look forward (if circumstances play out) to fly and work alongside aai crewmembers and welcome you all to what will be a highly profitable airline and career for everyone.

Don't get discouraged or over enthusiastic that one side is winning nor that your team is losing but clearly communicate with each respective elected officials to your concerns and interests.

Back to your regular programming. :beer:

And as always, we have the streaker running across the field (gl) trying to get the attention and inflame the crowd. Leaving the game to those who are playing is just too much for some i guess

very well said

 

[orangebellyav8r]

Very sad to see another carrier go down. Within 2 years Airtran goes with the likes of TWA, PanAm, Eastern. Been nice playing with all trainees. Best of luck and hope it all works out for you.

 

[SWA/FO]

Its an Acquisition.

What Does Acquisition Mean?
A corporate action in which a company buys most, if not all, of the target company's ownership stakes in order to assume control of the target firm.

 

[chase]

Orange,

I agree that AirTran will no longer exist within 2 yrs but I believe unlike the other pilots who were thrown out of jobs and then either retired from flying or were forced to take lower paying jobs at other carriers, AAI pilots will find themselves part of a team of pilots who also know how to and want to be as productive as possible, provide great customer service and contribute to the overall success of their new home at Southwest Airlines.

I can understand the nostalgia of seeing another airline's logo go away or callsign but I believe the Morris pilots would tell you they were glad their merger went the way it did; none of their pilots wish for the "good 'ole days" of being Morris pilots vs seeing where they are now.

You sight the history and ultimate demise of some of the worse tragedies in the airline industry. I'm optimistic history (and AAI pilots) will view the final outcome years from now as a benefit to their longterm financial success and job security.

Just my $.02.

My apologies, I'll try to be more pessimistic in the future.

 

[Kharma Police]

Its an Acquisition.

What Does Acquisition Mean?
A corporate action in which a company buys most, if not all, of the target company's ownership stakes in order to assume control of the target firm.

Thanks for clearing that up, I wasn't sure but I finally get it now, an acquisition.

 

[General Lee]

A couple of givens as I read the TA and the response from the AAI MEC.

Two different pilot groups are engaged in negotiations to help their respective pilot groups to the max extent possible exclusive of the other groups benefits (no duh!).

Each have different opinions on the Transition Agreement; that makes perfect sense.

Both are speaking to their members and expressing their thoughts, concerns, pluses and minuses. To do otherwise would be foolish and not within their charter.

Each group of elected officials/negotiating members must deal with the political, economic and operational issues that in many cases are outside their control.

It is also only the 2nd or 3rd inning in a 9 inning game; we are all a long way from the final outcome with many more turns (many unpredictable to come I'm sure).

Getting excited and stringing together long opinions about what will or won't happen is as futile as predicting the final outcome of a 9 inning game after one rotation of the batting order.

AAI responded just as SWAPA would've or any union if faced with similar circumstances.

SWAPA negotiated in the same manner as AAI would've for a TA they positively felt benefited the pilots currently on the SWAPA seniority list....what else should've they have done?

AAI MEC has communicated with their members they aren't pleased with how things have gone down so far with respect to the TA; no shock since SWA rejected their request to discuss TA related issues. I hope no one thought AAI would find that experience positive?

I still look forward (if circumstances play out) to fly and work alongside AAI crewmembers and welcome you all to what will be a highly profitable airline and career for everyone.

Don't get discouraged or over enthusiastic that one side is winning nor that your team is losing but clearly communicate with each respective elected officials to your concerns and interests.

Back to your regular programming. :beer:

And as always, we have the streaker running across the field (GL) trying to get the attention and inflame the crowd. Leaving the game to those who are playing is just too much for some I guess

Chase,

Thanks for my mention. The only reason I did any response initally is the EXTREME cockiness of most SWA pilots. If you want to look at any recent merger, you can look at a couple different approaches to merging lists and contracts. You can look at success, or failure. The DL/NWA merger is seen as a success, since the groups got together with very little arguing and a pay raise, and the company got beneficial "synergies" sooner, which helps the overall company. The USAir merger was the exact opposite, they never got a joint contract first (big mistake), and instead got the SLI first which the East didn't like. That has thrown all "synergies" out the window, which could have made USAir MORE profitable. Instead, they have two sides that hate each other, and that won't go away quietly. UAL and CAL haven't gotten together yet either with unity, and that means a longer wait. The only thing they currently agree on is more scope protection, which is a good thing. Pay, OTOH, is still a hot issue for them, unfortunately. Egos get in the way, and that is not good for anyone. SWAPA seems to be overflowing with ego, and that is obvious to everyone.

Your SWAPA team is NOT communicating with AT ALPA. It just isn't. You may think that is fine, but in the end it will spell disaster. Keep saying to everyone everything is FINE, when you know it is NOT. If SWAPA continues to try to exclude AT ALPA in negotiations, it will only lead to more animosity. Your famous culture is at risk here, because you have always bragged about how great it is, but it isn't being shown to ANYONE. We all can see how poorly the SWAPA people are treating their future "brothers". You need UNITY for contract talks, but not necessarily SLI talks. Lawyers will fight for that, but contract talks need everyone involved, and SWAPA is excluding AT ALPA, which will lead you down the wrong path, towards USAir II. I bet you are embarrassed. I would be if I were in your shoes. I can't wait to see the eventual SLI done with arbitrators. That will give SWAPA something hard to swallow. "You can't always get what you want......" Even SWAPA.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

How can you talk circumstances when you can't even agree on the definition of the situation (it's that aquisition vs. merger thing again).

It's an aquisition of Airtran with a merger of seniority list down the road. How far down the road is still to be determined.

Chase is right about how the future could turn out. It could be very exciting for everyone on the updated list.

General, everytime you try to compare this to NW/DL you lose credibility. Not even close to the same two companies as those two. Would be like DL merging with Comair. Try again..