AirTran MEC CYA

[PCL_128]

More proof that the "golden rule" is nothing but a sham at SWA.

 

[HowardBorden]

Really Howard ?

Go back and read the process agreement. Its in writing. Leave your hindsight in the closet next to your rubber ball gag. Pretend that you believe it was written in good faith. Then compare it to what happened.

You refer to the Process Agreement which said this:

WHEREAS, Southwest Airlines Pilots Association (?SWAPA?), the Air Line Pilots Association (?ALPA?), Southwest and AirTran desire to utilize an alternative process as set forth in this Agreement for the creation of an Integrated Master Seniority List;

What portion wasn't followed?

 

[HowardBorden]

More proof that the "golden rule" is nothing but a sham at SWA.

They treat me well. They have bent over backwards to help me in my time of need. They pay me well and I like my schedule and benefits. But, if our new contract contained any "the company will make its best effort" type of language I would vote no in a heartbeat. It's an airline, out to make a profit, I sip the kool-aid not gulp it.

 

[shagadelic]

The VERY first thing I thought when this agreement came out was I hope they get rid of the 717's before 2015. I'm still not exactly sure why so many SWA guys are pissed about it....

 

[GoodTimes]

PCL,

Explain to me how you envision "the golden rule" playing out through an SLI process.

 

[slaquer5]

PCL,

Explain to me how you envision "the golden rule" playing out through an SLI process.

Easy, relitive senority .

Jim R. And there number one pilot would flip a coin to see who bids number one. Then work down the list from there .


So basically just take how many years you where at AT and double it. That would be your new senority at SWA.

I left out double double your pay ( in reality it would triple )



That is his version of the golden rule.

 

[maxblast72]

Why don't you ask Russ M. about that, since he was the senior manager attending road shows when we were told that the 717s would be staying until lease expiration.

OK, Mr. ALPA EVP know it all, when do you think Richard Anderson told Gary Kelly he would take the B717s off SWA's hands?

Do I need to send you a copy of Frank's PowerPoint slide from the closed August 16, 2011 MEC meeting?

 

[redflyer65]

PCL,

Explain to me how you envision "the golden rule" playing out through an SLI process.

It's just a talking point.

Very similiar to try to argue with emotion and feelings, but in reality the facts were there. The 717 was never coming to this side of the fence. I do believe there should have been a re-bid for those on the AAI side.

 

[Ty Webb]

Well, we've pretty much covered how pilots from each seniority list view it; eventually, we'll see how a neutral observer views it.

That's probably what should have been done from the start.

 

[Ty Webb]

Easy, relitive senority .


So basically just take how many years you where at AT and double it. That would be your new senority at SWA.

I left out double double your pay ( in reality it would triple )

.

For a flight attendant, maybe.

For a current AirTran Captain, it's basically a $10K/yr loss until re-upgrade, and then a $30K raise from where you would be at AAI in that same year (2019).

That $30K, btw, is basically in exchange for losing your base, trading commutable trips for non-commutable trips, and starting over as a junior captain, which most of us already did a decade ago.

I don't expect you to see it my way, but every time you trot out that hogwash about us "doubling our pay", I'm obligated to set you straight.

Ty

 

[redflyer65]

I don't expect you to see it my way, but every time you trot out that hogwash about us "doubling our pay", I'm obligated to set you straight.

Ty

You need me to 'trot out' your pre-SW payscale? I wrote it down the day the announcement was made for future reference. Somehow I knew it would be an issue going forward.

I believe the top FO payscale was around 79/hour and the CA's topped out at 152.

Losing your base and seniority at the smaller carrier sucks and I completely get that part of it. There should have been fences.

 

[GoodTimes]

Ty,

Are you under the impression that an arbitrator is going to change the seniority list?

 

[slaquer5]

Ty,

Are you under the impression that an arbitrator is going to change the seniority list?

I can't speak for TW. But I am sure some do. Anything is possible

 

[FlyinGuy]

They can do a lot of things, but they cannot change the list.

 

[Tripower455]

For a flight attendant, maybe.

For a current AirTran Captain, it's basically a $10K/yr loss until re-upgrade, and then a $30K raise from where you would be at AAI in that same year (2019).

I am curious why the former AT Capts I've spoken to over here have all, to a man, said that they are making more money here, working fewer days, as an FO than they ever made as a Capt at AT?

 

[HowardBorden]

I can't speak for TW. But I am sure some do. Anything is possible

Subject to the terms and conditions contained in the Seniority Integration Agreement between Southwest, AirTran, SWAPA and ALPA, the Dispute Resolution Committee was created to resolve certain disputes arising from the interpretation or application of the September 2011 Seniority Integration Agreement. The committee functions within the boundaries of the Dispute Resolution Agreement and provides claimants access to binding arbitration. Importantly, an arbitrator's scope is limited solely to interpreting the agreement. The arbitrator cannot add to, remove from or otherwise modify the agreement, and the accompanying seniority list cannot be altered.

 

[Ty Webb]

No, an Arbitrator cannot change the list.

Regarding the pay, if you want to keep trotting out our 2001 contract, which became amendable in 2005, feel free, but don't expect anyone working on this side of the partition to agree that it is realistic to do so. That subject has already been been beat to death, and we'll just have to agree to disagree there.

As for what you have heard from former Captains that have transitioned, that's not what we are hearing, but if any 12th year pilots want to pm me with their w-2 info, I'd be happy to hear differently.

Regds,
Ty

 

[waveflyer]

More proof that the "golden rule" is nothing but a sham at SWA.

Do you love your friends?
(I guess I should ask IF you have friends, but I assume you do- people you really care about?)

Now you fall into business with them. Can they treat you any which way they want and have you stand idly by. Watch as they extort more and more- delaying the process, proceed neurotically w/o you acting and taking some control over the situation.


You want to shirk ATALPA's responsibility in how everything went down-
But you KNOW your role was significant.

For those of us who work in ALPA in the past- it was predictable. Lamely predictable. Except the neurosis - for that, I feel for every AT pilot.

 

[waveflyer]

Well, we've pretty much covered how pilots from each seniority list view it; eventually, we'll see how a neutral observer views it.

That's probably what should have been done from the start.

Well, AT wanted relative seniority. Your #1 next to ours.

And I want a billion trillion dollars-

You need to think about how many of us sacrificed years longer to start at the bottom for the company that BOUGHT you.

Sorry you got bought- but the tail doesn't wag the dog

 

[madjack]

"That $30K, btw, is basically in exchange for losing your base, trading commutable trips for non-commutable trips, and starting over as a junior captain, which most of us already did a decade ago."

UNBELIEVABLE!