AirTran MEC CYA

[tankerhead]

Hey, what's the min days off for a SWA reserve line?

 

[FDJ2]

You mean the magnificent seven didn't have anything to do with it?

I think ALPA pulled the rug out from underneath you more than SW did.

Gary stated he wanted a negotiated agreement. Both sides agreed to one (in principle). The MEC sounded astonished with the agreement, which is really bizarre. The MEC wanted one thing......arbitration. That it, that's one of the reasons it took them a month to decide what to do. Complete stall tactic plain and simple.

They decided to back Gary in a corner and he acted accordingly. Go back to point number one....he wanted a negotiated agreement. It's called BATNA and the AAI MEC didn't understand it.

The first shot on the agreement (no matter what it might have looked like) was going to be the best. It looks like the MEC understood this, but the MEC didn't.

There is no negotiated agreement when a gun is held to one's head. That's not negotiations, that's not BATNA, that's coercion and extortion. You like the extortion of seniority in this instance, because you benefited from it.

It's real simple. There was a process to be followed, which included arbitration if a negotiated agreement could not be reached. That process was abrogated through the use of threats. The Airtran pilots were denied a fair and impartial process. Because they were denied a fair process, many of them will feel that their seniority was stolen from them and handed to another. You're OK with it because you benefited at their expense, but IMO it will poison your pilot group for the rest of your career. Good luck with that.

 

[Phlintstone]

You mean the magnificent seven didn't have anything to do with it?

They failed to provide an absolute minimum deal that could be taken to the group. They just said, "get what you can." The MC did just that. If they would've provided a little leadership the MC would not have brought back the deal and continued to negotiate. When they rejected the negotiated deal, it was a failure of the whole process.

I think ALPA pulled the rug out from underneath you more than SW did.

You always say this like ALPA National had something to do with it. They did NOTHING other than provide a lawyer who did not provide much...my view from the bleacher seats.

Gary stated he wanted a negotiated agreement. Both sides agreed to one (in principle). The MEC sounded astonished with the agreement, which is really bizarre.

A negotiated agreement is always a good thing if it is fair. There are a lot of folks that do not feel it is fair. Is that a good thing for the kulture?

The MEC was astonished because they were not kept up to speed on the talks. The MEC was "hands off" when it came to the MC and that was about stupid because there needed to be oversight.

They decided to back Gary in a corner and he acted accordingly.

It had nothing to do with backing him into a corner. It was all about how bad the deal was and how the MEC was flooded with a "Just say NO" chant. This just shows how you do not and can not see how you AT viewed the process. Nothing against you, just that you write things that just are not entirely true.

The first shot on the agreement (no matter what it might have looked like) was going to be the best. It looks like the MEC understood this, but the MEC didn't.

You ended up being correct but you have to understand that your advice was coming from the opposing side of the aisle. It is like a shady used car salesman saying "This is the beast deal you are going to get." Do you just take it or do you want him to get the manager?


Red you really need to quit spouting about how the process went from the AT view since you do not understand the dynamics and gyrations of the AT side of the fence.

Phred

 

[maxblast72]

There is no negotiated agreement when a gun is held to one's head. That's not negotiations, that's not BATNA, that's coercion and extortion. You like the extortion of seniority in this instance, because you benefited from it.

While there was not much negotiating involved with SIA #2, there were serious negotiations for SIA #1. SIA #1 would have passed the AirTran pilot group by a much wider margin than the Southwest pilot group.

I am in possession of an email from one of our most radical forum guys to the Merger Committee Vice Chair stating he would have voted yes to SIA #1. If he would have voted yes, SIA #1 would have passed on the AirTran side with at least a 90% vote in favor.

Both the AirTran and Southwest pilots had unrealistic arbitration expectations. The NMB arbitrators in both the AirTran-Southwest dispatchers and rampers arbitration awards said this wasn't a merger of equals and awarded quite a bit lower than DOH for the AirTran employee groups.

Some blame the Merger Committee. Some blame the Magnificent Seven. Others blame Gary Kelly. It is what it is. Time to move on. Most of the FOs and FAs I fly with are tired of listening to $180K/year AirTran Captains bitch for 4 days straight.

 

[maxblast72]

The MEC was astonished because they were not kept up to speed on the talks. The MEC was "hands off" when it came to the MC and that was about stupid because there needed to be oversight.

The MEC was hands off because the Merger Committee Chair and Vice Chair had way more political capital in the tanks than any of the MEC voting reps. The ATL MEC reps found this out the hard way when they were recalled in September 2011.

 

[Phlintstone]

The MEC was hands off because the Merger Committee Chair and Vice Chair had way more political capital in the tanks than any of the MEC voting reps. The ATL MEC reps found this out the hard way when they were recalled in September 2011.

Exactly right. The MEC was a dysfunctional group and they showed how bad they were many times. A good MEC, with good leadership, and a responsible MC/NC would've done better. Unfortunately we did not have any of it.

Phred

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

The other employee group's arbitrated awards rightfully gave SW employees a higher position relative to the former AT employees. You guys keep saying you would have done better in arbitration. You are counting on a law uncontested (so far) in court that you think would have helped you.

In reality, without that remote possibility, and without leaning on the supposed outcome based on B-M, you would have been lucky to all make the bottom of the list! Just like EVERY pilot to ever come to SWA before you.

So talk about poisoning the workgroup all you want, but the only problem is YOU and your crazy expectations.

 

[Phlintstone]

So talk about poisoning the workgroup all you want, but the only problem is YOU and your crazy expectations.

That is the funniest statement of the week right there. Were you the FO who would not even say good morning to me the other day? Let me give you an update there frog boy, you are part of the problem too.

Phred

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

That is the funniest statement of the week right there. Were you the FO who would not even say good morning to me the other day? Let me give you an update there frog boy, you are part of the problem too.

Phred

Wasn't me. I'm always friendly. I'm just tired of listneing to the whining.

 

[IslandDriver]

Hey, what's the min days off for a SWA reserve line?

15 days on during a 30 day or 31 day month and 14 on during a 28 day month......

Trust me been on reserve better part of 5 years...looks like 5 more coming!

ID