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Oh yes.....the Golden Rule that everyone keeps talking about.

SWA version....treat people respectfully.

AT version....give me what I think I deserve in negotiations.

Guess what Lear, you were negotiating with the management of the most successful airline in the world!!! Did you actually you were going to ever force their back against the wall? Many of us cautioned you guys continually on this subject. They talk nice, but they will pin your arse against the wall if you don't play their way. Guess what, you made your move and this is what happened. There have not been very many times that someone comes out with a better deal the second time around with these guys. Anyways, whats done is done......hopefully we can grow and make money.
 
PCL_128 said:
Wow. That's the first time I've heard that. Unbelievable. Golden rule, my ass.
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Yeah, morning of Day 2.

Jack went in privately with Frank to tell them that this issue was one of the few we had authority to walk away for and would.

It took 4 hours while Russ M and Joe H went to Mike V with SWAPA and we essentially cooled our heels most of the morning and lunch before they came back and said Mike V approved that to be taken back off the table (removing any talk of probation) and putting the "no-probation" language back in.
 
Cometman said:
Remember, you can take the animal out of the jungle but you cannot take the jungle out of the animal. Both PCL and Lear70 are what they are. Just because they are now with SWA doesn't mean they will be any different. Their reputation will follow them through out their careers. If they were truly professional they would stop stirring the pot on FI and the other forums. However, it makes them feel smart with all their talk. They are bitter and will never forget it. They will be a thorn in SWA side for years to come.
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And you expect me to believe you don't work for Southwest or AirTran? Riiiiight... :rolleyes: You sound a lot like Bennefield... I think he used that exact wording on our message board a while back... as did Boeing 717. How's that lawsuit going by the way? ;)

At any rate, I'm not the one stirring the pot, but I also won't let people take potshots at me without responding. In case you hadn't noticed, it had been days since I'd posted until someone called me out. Just been watching and listening and am content to do so when people let things be.

But you and your buddy Boeing717 keep trying... someone might believe you, if they don't go back and read the actual thread. I don't respond until someone says something that's not true or calls me out. Otherwise I keep telling people to just let it go and move on.

Make sure you print the whole thread when you take it upstairs, and not just cutting and pasting the parts you take exception to... ;)
 
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Lear70 said:
And you expect me to believe you don't work for Southwest or AirTran? Riiiiight... :rolleyes: You sound a lot like Bennefield... I think he used that exact wording on our message board a while back... as did Boeing 717. How's that lawsuit going by the way? ;)

At any rate, I'm not the one stirring the pot, but I also won't let people take potshots at me without responding. In case you hadn't noticed, it had been days since I'd posted until someone called me out. Just been watching and listening and am content to do so when people let things be.

But you and your buddy Boeing717 keep trying... someone might believe you, if they don't go back and read the actual thread. I don't respond until someone says something that's not true or calls me out. Otherwise I keep telling people to just let it go and move on.

Make sure you print the whole thread when you take it upstairs, and not just cutting and pasting the parts you take exception to... ;)
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Wrong. I do not work for either. You are not that smart Lear70. Remember the old saying " rather a man think I am fool than to open my mouth and remove all doubt". You should say that a few times so it sinks in. Your best bet is to try and stop posting and stick to your company site. This site is for people like me that has nothing else to do. You are too easy.
 
Cometman said:
Wrong. I do not work for either.
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You either do or you're retired from one of the two (I'm betting retired SWA), but keep saying it if it makes you feel better... ;)


Your best bet is to try and stop posting and stick to your company site.
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I'd be glad to if people would stop calling me out or posting things that are just blatantly incorrect. I have posted many times trying to calm people down on here; I'm obviously not here to stir the pot.
 
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Lear70 said:
You either do or you're retired from one of the two (I'm betting retired SWA), but keep saying it if it makes you feel better... ;)

Now you are fishing Lear70. Admit you do not know but guessing. It is now time for you to move on and not worry about what other people on here are saying about you. They might be just like me and just getting to you. Grow up, you are not helping yourself start a new life with a new company. All you are doing is bring all your dirty laundry from one to the next. But then again you know that already.
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8-5-2009 this was posted:

Cometman said:
I agree. If we have another type of aircraft it has to be the same pay rate as the 737. UPS does and it seems to work. However, if we are taking both groups then it has to be a staple. Just think if we did not staple. There could be Lynx guys ahead of SWA pilots? You would have to staple both groups for this to work.
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The discussion was about SWA buying F9 and lynx; so why would you say "we are taking both groups" and "if we did not staple", if you are not or where not a SWA pilot?
 
Ha! Busted. Well done.
 
Cometman said:
Lear70 said:
Now you are fishing Lear70. Admit you do not know but guessing. It is now time for you to move on and not worry about what other people on here are saying about you. They might be just like me and just getting to you. Grow up, you are not helping yourself start a new life with a new company. All you are doing is bring all your dirty laundry from one to the next. But then again you know that already.
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Fishing? Not really. Certain you are one of the two. No one else cares enough to keep stirring the pot like you do except the General, and he stirs everyone's pot, whereas you are only on SWA threads.

Not rocket science.

And I'm not foolish enough to think I will be forgotten, nor do I think it matters. I fought for our pilots. I did so professionally and respectfully. And if that gets held against me then that's someone else's lack of ethics, not mine. I do my job, I do it well, and I go home. Just like thousands of other pilots.
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PCL_128 said:
Ha! Busted. Well done.
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That is the problem with you and Lear70. You believe everything you read on this site. I am not with either airline. I guess you can call me a trouble maker. However, both of you are so easy. It goes to show you how smart you both really are.
 
Cometman said:
That is the problem with you and Lear70. You believe everything you read on this site. I am not with either airline. I guess you can call me a trouble maker. However, both of you are so easy. It goes to show you how smart you both really are.
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Riiiiiiight. ;) lol

I'd say you're pretty much busted. And even if you aren't, then by your own admission, you are only here to stir the pot, which is what you were accusing me of doing and disparaging my character because of it.

So either way, hypocrite, troll, or liar,,, or all three,,, welcome to my ignore list.

Cheers, :beer:
 
Lear70 said:
Do a search, there's pages and pages of the stuff, but long story short, about 48 hours after the MEC voted down SIA 1, Gary Kelly wrote a letter to the pilot group expressing his extreme displeasure that they didn't allow the pilots to have a say and said that, given those events, Southwest would begin to investigate "alternatives to integration", even though Paragraph 6.a of the Process Agreement very specifically said "...utilizing the foregoing procedures, Southwest will implement the combined seniority list and integrate the two companies".

This lead to a lot of heated back-and-forth where it basically came out that Southwest asserted that since they hadn't brought any unionized employees over and that since no planes had come over, that McCaskill-Bond had not been triggered and they were not forced to integrate operations if they chose not to do so. The attorneys said it was doubtful that would hold up, but would take years to fight if they really went that way.

It further came out that with our 717 leases expiring starting in 2017 (just six years from that point) through 2024, and with many of our 737's leased as well, the majority of our pilots might end up on the street while the whole thing worked itself out over many years (it took TWA 10 years to get their court battle heard and we know how many thousands of them have yet to be recalled to AA).

Our pilots were not willing to accept that kind of risk and several of the same pilots of ours who were writing Gary Kelly personally during talks for SIA 1 just begging for a staple, etc, started a drive to remove key union officers who lead the "No" vote push, replace them with their own people, and push for whatever we could get, up to and including a staple. Those people combined with the sudden influx of emails and phone calls saying, basically, "We won't accept this kind of a risk, do something" vastly overwhelmed the several hundred people who had emailed pushing for arbitration before we knew there was this "non-integration" risk.

The MEC, realizing we were about to implode as a union... again... directed the MC to go back out to Dallas and "get whatever they could get", which included a promise to put whatever we came up with out for pilot vote. The NC was then instructed to go out and get everything WE could get. The only thing we were allowed to say No to was a complete staple or probationary periods (and they actually did try to put us all on probation, it was the only thing we got up and walked out of the room for in that 2nd round).

Southwest management then put us under a time constraint, saying they had "400 people working on Plan B - non-integration, and had to report to the Southwest Board at the end of the week, so we have to have a deal on Thursday or we will recommend the non-integration path to the Board and start proceeding".

The Agreement we have now is the outcome of those talks. During the voting period, the Merger Committee on an all-pilot conference call said "If you want to work for Southwest, vote Yes. If you don't, vote No." and that pretty much sealed the deal. Too many people afraid of losing their jobs to fight.

There are a LOT of other details, but that's the long and short of it, and is why some people (gotta love Dicko's avatar) say we had a "gun pointed to our head" in this deal. Take the threat of non-integration out of it, and we'd have gone to arbitration. Maybe we'd have done better, maybe we'd have done worse, but it's over now and it's simply going to take a while for the angst to pass.

In the meantime we'll just keep on doing our jobs, achieving our 94% on-time and top baggage handling spot, and making money for everyone's profit sharing checks. Life goes on... :)
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A threat of non-integration sounds like a pretty classless move from SWA management. I guess it isn't just roses and daisies even at SWA. Did SWAPA have anything to do with the non-integration threat, or was that all just SWA management?
 

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