AirTran cuts 175

[Secret Squirrel]

I am sorry that you are getting furloughed, however from your statements it appears that you did not like it here anyway so I guess that it is no loss for you.

The job was fine. The pilots I flew with were all good guys. I could have easily seen myself flying here for the rest of my career. My problem is that I think it is too risky. I have never seen a management so aggressive towards an employee group. Terminations (and attempted terminations) for no reason to try an intimidate the pilot group. Blatant violations of the contract. And the problem with this is the Union is so unorganized and does not have the resources to fight it. There are some very vocal opponents to ALPA and I don't see it coming on property. If they are trying to fire the guy that brought MEMRAT I can only imagine what the company would try to do to the guy that starts the ALPA petition. And the problem of that is that the union is not fighting to get these guys who fight for the employee group back. The BOD has in the past voted to not represent terminated employees. We came from the same company to here, do you remember some of the guys that ALPA got back on property? That is a testemant to the power and resources that a good MEC has with the support of ALPA. We are not even fighting to get two guys back who only wanted the best for this employee group. So who is going to stick their necks out here?

OK, maybe my posts were especially negative, I am quite negative right now. Sorry if I offended anybody. But I am finding it very hard to want to come back here and betting my next 25 year career on this management and union. Good luck to all you guys who stay. It will be a tough couple years for you if you try to make things better. It will be very easy to cower and allow the company to walk all over you. As somebody who is on the street I will try to keep my mudslinging to a minimum.

 

[T3700]

The guys getting furloughed have every right to be upset with the way management treated them. And to be honest, anyone that has been at AirTran for less than three years has never seen the Union accomplish anything to the benefit of the pilot group. To tell those folks "good riddance, if you don't like it here why don't you just quit?" Is not being fair. This is like some of our senior Capts telling FO's "you knew what the FO pay scale was when you started here, you have no right to complain" If anyone has the right to complain about AirTran it is our two hostages and those about to be furloughed!

 

[Britpilot]

We came from the same company to here, do you remember some of the guys that ALPA got back on property? That is a testemant to the power and resources that a good MEC has with the support of ALPA. We are not even fighting to get two guys back who only wanted the best for this employee group.

I do remember the guys who were terminated and did get the jobs back. It really was not ALPA who did that but a few guys within the union who stuck their necks out for them. I was involved in one of the cases and can say that ALPA was not involved in that one.
The NPA is trying to get our two guys reinstated and have stated so on several occasions so I think you're wrong on that one.
Good luck where ever you go, let me know if I can help.

 

[Ty Webb]

The NPA is trying to get our two guys reinstated and have stated so on several occasions so I think you're wrong on that one.
.

The NPA "states" that they are, but results are what counts, and the results are very clear. They (NPA) have placed these pilots on the back burner, in order to achieve other goals (clearing backlogs of minor grievances).
It should have been made clear to Management that there would be NO LOA'S, and NO consideration of concessions until these guys were both back on the property. Period.
Not standing up to this management team has emboldened them, and now they are harassing and intimidating other pilots. So, no, the NPA is not pursuing the right course, and a large number of the Membership has noticed.
TW

 

[Britpilot]

The NPA "states" that they are, but results are what counts, and the results are very clear. They (NPA) have placed these pilots on the back burner, in order to achieve other goals (clearing backlogs of minor grievances).
It should have been made clear to Management that there would be NO LOA'S, and NO consideration of concessions until these guys were both back on the property. Period.
Not standing up to this management team has emboldened them, and now they are harassing and intimidating other pilots. So, no, the NPA is not pursuing the right course, and a large number of the Membership has noticed.
TW

No argument from me on all of that. I just repeated what the NPA has previously stated.

 

[Mongolikecandy]

Sorry to steer the thread back on topic but...
I keep hearing senior people say they think this whole furlough thing is just a ploy by management. If it is a bluff, well done. It certainly looks like I, and 174 of my brothers and sisters, will be looking for work next month.
What are the chances with oil down below $112 (today) that we won't hit the street?

 

[Captain Jeff]

I really do wish you the best, but 10 years ago they furloughed like 40 guys for like 3 weeks or something like that. I would expect sometime off.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I do remember the guys who were terminated and did get the jobs back. It really was not ALPA who did that but a few guys within the union who stuck their necks out for them. I was involved in one of the cases and can say that ALPA was not involved in that one.
The NPA is trying to get our two guys reinstated and have stated so on several occasions so I think you're wrong on that one.
Good luck where ever you go, let me know if I can help.

But who is willing to stick their neck out here? The guys who have done it have had their head cut off and the union has done nothing but continue to give in to the companies demands. I agree that the MEC and the pilots are what makes a union but ALPA brings organization, support, lawyers and assistance in giving us direction. I remember our union saying that contract 04 was because of all the resources available to them by ALPA, but not necessarily because of ALPA. Unfortunately it will be a painful process for this employee group to resolve some of these problems. I will you all the best and hope you make the right decisions.

 

[Flyer1015]

Bottom Line........NO OPEN TIME PICKUP!!!!!! If you pick up open time the boogey man will visit you in your sleep! NO OPEN TIME PICKUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amen to that! Grow a spine people, and don't pick up open time when your fellow pilots are furloughed out on the street.

 

[Sunking]

Sorry to steer the thread back on topic but...
I keep hearing senior people say they think this whole furlough thing is just a ploy by management. If it is a bluff, well done. It certainly looks like I, and 174 of my brothers and sisters, will be looking for work next month.
What are the chances with oil down below $112 (today) that we won't hit the street?

According to Chief FP oil could drop below 60 a barrel and the furlough still cometh because the 7 aircraft have already been sold. That being said BF told NPA that they are currently in talks with Boeing on Midex's &717s . Did not mention the amount except it wasn't 24, whatever that means. I'd like to see a ray of hope in that BF has seen the mistake of sell,sell,sell and the purchase of a few 717s can be a short term fix so to speak. In either case good luck to all, no favors, no overtime until all you good folks are on the payroll!

 

[Flyprdu]

......

 

[Flynfish]

Removal of all 4 valve stem cores would start as a warning, followed by a good ole tire slash as a second warning would speak volumes to the turd eaters who would step on the backs of their own.
PBR

You better make sure you have the right car, or plan on your own hell. I wouldn't pick up time with folks on the street, but you mob mentality idiots piss me off.

 

[717capt]

Just throwin a thought out here and I realize that it is not popular to be on the side of the NPA BOD nowadays. I still contend that they have a tough job in a tough enviornment, but here's my thought.

LOA 9 was total crap. It got us no real gains. It was mostly in the company's favor. No question about that. The real context of the LOA however was firing -vs-furlough. Period. All the rest is just fluff, but it did ensure that the 177 would not be fired. Now follow the thought and it's mostly directed as a question.

Now I know that this is far fetched but follow the thought anyway. What would happen hypothetically if say Southwest were to buy Airtran?
Well assuming a integration or even a staple of the Airtran pilots, what would happen to the 177 that are now furloughed -vs- fired. I would imagine that if they were fired, they would not be part of any integration/staple but since they are now furloughed I would venture to guess that they would be.

Look, I know that everyone want's to lynch the BOD right now, but you BOD haters have to understand that they are privy to information that we are not. And as far as any secret squirrell stuff that the guys on the npa forum love to bring up, remember these guys at the NPA signed legal binding confidentiality agreements. I don't think that any of them would do prison time to provide information, especially insider information. Hell one of the guys on the BOD is so honest, I don't think he could tell a lie if his life depended on it. Imagine the integrity it takes to come out openly and say I know the LOA sucked, but I voted for it and here's why. Talk about character.

Again just a thought but maybe all is not as it seems.

 

[scarlet]

717 CPT--Great post !!

 

[Sunking]

Now I know that this is far fetched but follow the thought anyway. What would happen hypothetically if say Southwest were to buy Airtran?

And thats about as far fetched as, and follow the thought anyway......There is a jolly ol elf that lives in the North Pole and makes toys for all of the good girls and boys.

Sorry, couldn't resist,, your post does have some merit food for thought.