AirTran cuts 175

[Hamburger]

Call UAL=ALPA=NO

Sounds like they've made some progress.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=115338
http://forums.flightinfo.comshowthread.php?t=115338

 

[Sunking]

I have worked with some cool people here and I have met cool people. There are people like that everywhere, however, fact is fact and Airtran is a 2nd tier company. It may be better than it was but it is still a low on the pecking order. They are not a legacy-like major and the pay is insulting compared to Southwest. Atlanta is the main hub and it is a ghetto airport. The passengers are ghetto. A lot of the F/As are ghetto. A lot of the rest of the employees are from Ga. (nuff said on that). A lot of the Captains are people that were hired before it was a place people tried to go but instead they could not get hired anywhere else. That is the truth. I have flown with many guys who have admitted that Airtran/Valuejet was the company that offered the job. There is no way that a majority of people that were hired in the 7+ year ago range picked this over a legacy. They upgraded in a rather short time and make a good living. I have had people tell me that they know that they will NEVER make this kind of money again if Airtran went away. So they will talk the talk but they will not walk the walk when time comes and that is a major reason why the pilot group lacks the cajones. A good amount of people still live in Atlanta or the southeast region and they are making good money, in their 30s and 40s, are above reserve levels, and have workable schedules. They will pick up open time, agree to management abuse, and accept this white trash/ghetto airline style because they have a lot to lose. Most pilots cannot do anything else. It is called a white collar job but really it is a blue collar task that wear a white shirt. It is more like a gray collar job. This is a self-loving, self-serving, "all about me" society. This is what we know. I do not blame people for being the way they are but it is what it is. This country has not been united since the Boston Tea Party.

I don't know, I think the majority of this pilot group are pi$$ed off big time. We voted the TA1 and TA2 down and if our group had the chance to vote on the last LOA's they would not have passed. Your assessment it true for a lot of guys especially the BOD. Perhaps the MEMRAT is right for this pilot group to cover for those without cojones.

 

[Clyde Frog]

I don't know, I think the majority of this pilot group are pi$$ed off big time. We voted the TA1 and TA2 down and if our group had the chance to vote on the last LOA's they would not have passed.

Voting down concessionary contracts is one thing, doing what's necessary to achieve gains is something different alltogeather.

I have no doubt people are pissed, but what are they doing about it other than saying "I'm pissed". Not much.

You know the old saying about "actions speaking louder than words", so far, we're all talk.

 

[Wesb737fo]

....fact is fact and Airtran is a 2nd tier company. It may be better than it was but it is still a low on the pecking order.
They are not a legacy-like major and the pay is insulting compared to Southwest.....

...Atlanta is the main hub and it is a ghetto airport. The passengers are ghetto. A lot of the F/As are ghetto. A lot of the rest of the employees are from Ga. (nuff said on that)......

And what fine region of the country hatched the likes of yourself? Perhaps you should quit AirTran and find a job there. Based on your attitude I would bet that some of the ghetto FA's you speak of have 10 times the class you possess.

 

[humveedriver]

You have to love guys like Coolsidepillow. Blowing off AirTran for years only to "settle" for FL after they couldn't get on at LUV/FedEx or whatever airline is the brass ring of the year. It's the pot calling the kettle black. If it makes some people feel better, there are a large number of pre 9/11 pilots at AirTran who got their PIC in 19 seaters (CorpEx, CCAir, Commutair) and then came to AirTran as the next step. After 9/11 all the guys who bailed on AirTran for the majors got furloughed. For many of us it was a wake up call that life doesn't always go exactly like you planned it, and we got over ourselves. I suggest you do the same. The most senior pilot at AirTran has a hire date of 1993. So Valuejet is a 15 year old company, 12 if you count the merger. Stop whining and do your part to make this young airline a place worth working at (not for).

 

[MINIME]

CALPA didn't buy into a bunch of management fear-mongering and concede a key job protection element of their contract, dip-sh!t. Furloughs were going to happen at AirTran if management wanted them, so if they fired the probies during mediated negotiations they would have to reclassify them as furloughed when the NMB dust settled... and flush the retread S-words out of the training department. The company got exactly what they wanted and the pilot group got dick. Again.

NPA, ALPA, IBT, it doesn't matter what initials are on the door of the Union office if the same weakened 'leaders' are running the show. Given the composition of the AirTran pilot group I wouldn't expect any significant improvements, however. I thought that there was reason for hope when Mike Best took over just after I left, but he's having a real hard time making chicken salad out of chicken sh!t.

I'm so disgusted with the company appeasers, you for example, that I could spit. I had the honor to work at several airlines with truly unified pilot groups. Pick up open time with guys on the street or during mediated negotiations? No way. Taking a strike vote? Hells yeah, 97% enough? The company want relief from the contract for some reason? Sure, we're willing to talk - here's our lengthy list of things we want in return. No? OK, we're comfortable with the agreement as written.

To answer your moronic question, Captain Best should have held the line (finally) and told the company that the NPA was happy with the contract language contained in the contract. It would have been the first time in years that the NPA told the company to honor the agreement they signed instead of offering to tickle their balls while they sodomized us. I really have a lot of respect for the AirTran pilots but there are enough freelancing, company-oriented, Kolski KoolAid drinkers there to make true progress impossible. Especially with 170+ of the junior guys soon to hit the street.

Oh. Hi, Mr. Kolski. I thought I smelled sulphur.

Harsh evaluation but perhaps right on. It's my understanding that the new union President is a hard liner that's hated by the company. That should be good for the pilots that want change. It's clear that AAI management is no SWA management.

Perhaps he's surrounded by company sympathizers that will not allow him to impliment his full agenda. Union officials have to be scrutinized before elections. (Food for thought) Since you voted down the last few proposals, ideally, none of your officials should have voted for them either. You elected to recall your old union due to the poor contract they negotiated. In the interest of having a unified vision, not electing officials that voted for it, should've been a priority.

Perhaps none of them voted for it. But if some did, the pilot group should watch them closely. This does not make them bad people. But they could be people who can easily be persuaded by company propaganda. Thus, not always acting in pilot group's best interest.

If negotiations and contract compliance are that bad, your union should be preparing for strike votes. The SPC should be in full force. Afterall, you've been at this for how long now? The threat of firing 177 of your young should be enough motivation.

No disrespect, but even AMR didn't come up with a plan like that. That's not bad on the pilots. But AAI management is worst than I thought. It appears that it doesn't have the union it deserves yet. With that in mind, I doubt Prater could do better. It comes down to your local officials.

 

[Ty Webb]

CALPA didn't buy into a bunch of management fear-mongering and concede a key job protection element of their contract . . . if they fired the probies during mediated negotiations they would have to reclassify them as furloughed when the NMB dust settled... and flush the retread S-words out of the training department. The company got exactly what they wanted and the pilot group got dick. . . . . . . Pick up open time with guys on the street or during mediated negotiations? No way. Taking a strike vote? Hells yeah, 97% enough? The company want relief from the contract for some reason? Sure, we're willing to talk - here's our lengthy list of things we want in return. No? OK, we're comfortable with the agreement as written. . . Captain Best should have held the line (finally) and told the company that the NPA was happy with the contract language contained in the contract. It would have been the first time in years that the NPA told the company to honor the agreement they signed instead of offering to tickle their balls while they sodomized us. . . . .

Geez, did I write this in my sleep? Because I don't remember writing it, but if you put it to music, I could sing it . . . . !

TW

 

[njcapt]

Geez, did I write this in my sleep? Because I don't remember writing it, but if you put it to music, I could sing it . . . . !

TW

Glad you agree, Ty, maybe we should go get a room. The ethical, rational approach for the NPA to take seems obvious to me, but I guess I'm on the fringe. Sorry I'm not around to assist in the good fight.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Bottom Line........NO OPEN TIME PICKUP!!!!!! If you pick up open time the boogey man will visit you in your sleep! NO OPEN TIME PICKUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Removal of all 4 valve stem cores would start as a warning, followed by a good ole tire slash as a second warning would speak volumes to the turd eaters who would step on the backs of their own.
PBR

 

[Britpilot]

I have worked with some cool people here and I have met cool people. There are people like that everywhere, however, fact is fact and Airtran is a 2nd tier company. It may be better than it was but it is still a low on the pecking order. They are not a legacy-like major and the pay is insulting compared to Southwest. Atlanta is the main hub and it is a ghetto airport. The passengers are ghetto. A lot of the F/As are ghetto. A lot of the rest of the employees are from Ga. (nuff said on that). A lot of the Captains are people that were hired before it was a place people tried to go but instead they could not get hired anywhere else. That is the truth. I have flown with many guys who have admitted that Airtran/Valuejet was the company that offered the job. There is no way that a majority of people that were hired in the 7+ year ago range picked this over a legacy. They upgraded in a rather short time and make a good living. I have had people tell me that they know that they will NEVER make this kind of money again if Airtran went away. So they will talk the talk but they will not walk the walk when time comes and that is a major reason why the pilot group lacks the cajones. A good amount of people still live in Atlanta or the southeast region and they are making good money, in their 30s and 40s, are above reserve levels, and have workable schedules. They will pick up open time, agree to management abuse, and accept this white trash/ghetto airline style because they have a lot to lose. Most pilots cannot do anything else. It is called a white collar job but really it is a blue collar task that wear a white shirt. It is more like a gray collar job. This is a self-loving, self-serving, "all about me" society. This is what we know. I do not blame people for being the way they are but it is what it is. This country has not been united since the Boston Tea Party.

Please quit. There are 175 pilots who want your job.

 

[McNugget]

I have worked with some cool people here and I have met cool people. There are people like that everywhere, however, fact is fact and Airtran is a 2nd tier company. It may be better than it was but it is still a low on the pecking order. They are not a legacy-like major and the pay is insulting compared to Southwest. Atlanta is the main hub and it is a ghetto airport. The passengers are ghetto. A lot of the F/As are ghetto. A lot of the rest of the employees are from Ga. (nuff said on that). A lot of the Captains are people that were hired before it was a place people tried to go but instead they could not get hired anywhere else. That is the truth. I have flown with many guys who have admitted that Airtran/Valuejet was the company that offered the job. There is no way that a majority of people that were hired in the 7+ year ago range picked this over a legacy. They upgraded in a rather short time and make a good living. I have had people tell me that they know that they will NEVER make this kind of money again if Airtran went away. So they will talk the talk but they will not walk the walk when time comes and that is a major reason why the pilot group lacks the cajones. A good amount of people still live in Atlanta or the southeast region and they are making good money, in their 30s and 40s, are above reserve levels, and have workable schedules. They will pick up open time, agree to management abuse, and accept this white trash/ghetto airline style because they have a lot to lose. Most pilots cannot do anything else. It is called a white collar job but really it is a blue collar task that wear a white shirt. It is more like a gray collar job. This is a self-loving, self-serving, "all about me" society. This is what we know. I do not blame people for being the way they are but it is what it is. This country has not been united since the Boston Tea Party.

Well-said!

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Please quit. There are 175 pilots who want your job.

Make that 174 (actually I have talked to many so that number might be less) that want your job. I was actually more worried I would not be furloughed. This is a completely different company than I thought I applied too. A crap contract, weak MEC, abusive management are more than I could take being the very bottom of the seniority list. I have a feeling that this employee group is going to pick up as much open time as it is given while us guys are on the street. Look at some of the damn lines for Sept., over 100 hours!!

 

[twepilot]

THEN EFFING QUIT if you are so unhappy with everything around you. Put your money where your mouth is you freakin puss.

RV

 

[Secret Squirrel]

THEN EFFING QUIT if you are so unhappy with everything around you. Put your money where your mouth is you freakin puss.

RV

On the street as of next month. Have you not been paying attention to what is going on? So you will not have to worry about me trying to point out the obvious. I guess you could just live in denial that everything is all right. And that is a good strategy. Direct all your anger at me and not at the problems at hand. That will accomplish everything the company is looking for. If this pilot group does not get motivated then it will never be able to stand up to this management.

 

[Britpilot]

On the street as of next month. Have you not been paying attention to what is going on? So you will not have to worry about me trying to point out the obvious. I guess you could just live in denial that everything is all right. And that is a good strategy. Direct all your anger at me and not at the problems at hand. That will accomplish everything the company is looking for. If this pilot group does not get motivated then it will never be able to stand up to this management.

I am sorry that you are getting furloughed, however from your statements it appears that you did not like it here anyway so I guess that it is no loss for you.