AirTran BOD recommends a No Vote!

[ATLDRVR]

I agree. I am voting no, but would like to see what a weeks worth of negotions did to the "new" TA.

 

[Just thinking]

I do not really care what the recommendation may be. They have no credibility after trying with all of their might to sell it when it first came out. Now they tweak a few things and come back with a no recommendation? They will get more than a no vote. They get a no confidence vote. They have violated the trust of the pilot group and they will get recalled. I would like to see the NPA provide all potential candidates room on the web site to post their campaign proposals. I would like to be able to read a bit more about each person to gain a better understanding to make an informed decision. Whomever steps into the position I would recommend a complete audit of the books with the results posted for all to see. What did our dues get us for the last couple of years? Pack your trash boys and review those limitations... you will be back on the line in a bit...Looking forward to seeing the pilot group gain unity through this bit of uncertainty. We must remain committed to each other. Protect our flying. Protect our careers. Protect our future. We have a great pilot group that is highly motivated at this time. RM (lear) has done a wonderful job of educating the pilot group and we owe him a huge debt of gratitude. That sort of education needs to continue to maintain the motivation. Future leaders of the NPA, this pilot group needs LEADERS, not some suits pretending to know what they are doing. Remember that you are a pilot. Fly the line. Hire in the professionals to do the negotiations with a steering committee. Return emails and phone callls. Be available and accountable and don't waste my money.

 

[SkiFishFly]

... Remember that you are a pilot. Fly the line. Hire in the professionals to do the negotiations with a steering committee. Return emails and phone calls. Be available and accountable and don't waste my money.

I second that one.

 

[Max Powers]

Professional in this business don't work. Many of them just don't understand our work rules and some pilots are quite savvy and can do a much better job because they have a vested interests and passion to boot. Very few mediated contract negotiations have ever had pros.

 

[Eagle757shark]

Why can't they be placed in point to point service? SWA seems to do just fine with that type of thing.

Because AirTran's business model is not based off Southwest's. Southwest system is based on a point to point network throughout their system. AirTran even though we have some point to point markets, is modeled mainly on a hub and spoke network. To attempt to further point to point, particularly on the east coast, would endanger your hub flying out of Atlanta. We saw some of that in the 3rd and 4th quarters of last year with the reduction of our load factors. Read the financials, it is all there. It is critical that AirTran have a new hub and soon. They have to commit to those aircraft orders really soon.

 

[Lear70]

Professional in this business don't work. Many of them just don't understand our work rules and some pilots are quite savvy and can do a much better job because they have a vested interests and passion to boot. Very few mediated contract negotiations have ever had pros.

And that's gotten us, collectively as professional pilots, exactly WHERE in the last half decade?

OK, that was a *little* bit of a cheap shot, and I'm not trying to bash on you, buddy... 9/11 and management greed had MUCH to do with where we are today but, in all seriousness, any pilot who doesn't have an MBA in business and extensive litigation/negotiation EXPERIENCE, not just "training", isn't going to last long against Kolski.

I've been there. I've seen it. Some of the pilots on our side of the table were very intelligent people, just ZERO litigation/negotiation credentials and they got served. Period.

The next leadership group must recognize that the *front-line* negotiator on our side of the table needs to be a PROFESSIONAL who is experienced enough to beat Kolski at his own game, shut him down as required, and not lose the battle in small increments, which is what appears happened to the current NC and Pres. Pilots need to be there for direction and consultation, but the company uses Kolski as a foil; we need one of our own.

"Smart" alone just isn't going to cut it.

 

[justin15e]

Why do we allow these negotiations to take so long?

I have a question, since I'm new to the airline business. Why do pilot unions allow these negotiations to drag out for such a long time? It seems like if a deadline arises and a new contract is due and its crap, well doesn't that just bide more time and money for management? Basically, what is the incentive for an airlines management to put out a good first draft of a new good contract? That just means they will have higher costs faster. It sounds to me that these concessionary contracts to ream pilots sound like they are fast tracked whereas the contracts which allow for better QOL and pay seem to take quite a long time and multiple iterations...

I'm new to this industry though, so maybe someone can edumicate me.

 

[Lear70]

I have a question, since I'm new to the airline business. Why do pilot unions allow these negotiations to drag out for such a long time?

We don't "allow" them to do anything... The RLA and the Federal Government do.

It seems like if a deadline arises and a new contract is due and its crap, well doesn't that just bide more time and money for management?

Yes.

Basically, what is the incentive for an airlines management to put out a good first draft of a new good contract?

There's not one.

That just means they will have higher costs faster.

Correct.

It sounds to me that these concessionary contracts to ream pilots sound like they are fast tracked whereas the contracts which allow for better QOL and pay seem to take quite a long time and multiple iterations...

Correct again.

I'm new to this industry though, so maybe someone can edumicate me.

Welcome.

The problem exists on several levels. The airline CEO's pay lobbyists an obscene amount of money to ensure that the pilots (or any organized labor for that matter) don't get anything done for their benefit in any kind of hurry.

This is why the RLA has no teeth. There's no method to force compliance when the company violates the contract. There's no method to force the company to negotiate in good faith.

You can get a mediator... who is appointed by the National Mediation Board and, oh wait, WHO runs the NMB? Oh yeah, they're appointed... by who? 3 guesses, first 2 don't count.

There ARE NO LABOR-FRIENDLY government officials. We (the airlines) exist to get people from Point A to Point B as cheaply and efficiently as possible. Raising our salaries even to adjust for 1960's-era inflation would hike ticket prices and the public would scream bloody murder.

Our ONLY legal tool is work action and it takes YEARS to get there. Thanks to who? Oh yeah, that NMB thing again...

The whole process is broken; has been for some time. Deregulation succeeded in getting cheap tickets for everyone, at the expense of the workers, which WASN'T what MOST people had in mind when it passed.

Our job, at this point, is to get all the pilots educated that our ONLY tool to force a good contract into place is ACTION, then motivate them to ACT in a legal yet effective way, first with informational picketing... messy... public... painful... then, once we have the majority of the pilots on board, we start pushing for release into self-help.

It's going to come to that, or we're going to get another concessionary T.A. People who think it's going to come out any different need a wake-up call. I don't like it, but that's where we're at; never thought I'd say that about this company...

 

[[email protected]]

Any rumors on Airtrans side about a merger with Frontier.

 

[Eagle757shark]

Any rumors on Airtrans side about a merger with Frontier.

I imagine if the Midwest deal falls through, that is all you will hear about. AirTran has a lot of airplanes coming next year and no place to put them. You can bet that everyone will be speculating about AirTran and Frontier if the Midwest deal goes away. Look at the route networks, it would make sense. I don't know about the buses though and how that would fit into the plan. 9am Monday morning will shed more light on what will happen.

 

[captainj]

I voted no! Just got the ballot and am glad to finally get to vote on something.

 

[SkiFishFly]

I voted no! Just got the ballot and am glad to finally get to vote on something.

How did you get the ballot? Should I expect an email???

 

[Av8tor]

How did you get the ballot? Should I expect an email???

Nope........ USPS I got mine yesterday! No way TA!!

 

[captainj]

Ballot

I live in atl and my ballot instructions were in saterdays mail.

 

[TranSporter]

Got mine in the regular mail on Sat. Voted no on the TA and recalled both. Time to move onward and upward.