Airtran and their "500 PIC part 121" requirement?

[kilroy]

twadude........wow I,m surprised . You sound more than qualified....It is amazing how these airlines conduct there hiring practices. Meanwhile some other guy with 1/4 of your experience will get a job with them.......I get so frustrated . Nothing against lower time guys but you see these pilots with 3000 hrs barely meet the mins and guys like you are sitting here thinking what are we doing wrong...All these years to building time and experience and none of the airlines appreciates it or even acknowledges it.. Its not about being a good pilot anymore its about who you know and how you play the game.

 

[furloughed]

twadude........Its not about being a good pilot anymore its about who you know and how you play the game.

It has ALWAYS been this way.

 

[pilot370]

I thought i had read in a previous post on this subject that said Airtran has that minimum because of the non-121 pilots were failing their checkrides? Maybe they just got a few bad apples, that or it dosent say much for their training department.

 

[Ty Webb]

tNothing against lower time guys but you see these pilots with 3000 hrs barely meet the mins and guys like you are sitting here thinking what are we doing wrong...All these years to building time and experience and none of the airlines appreciates it or even acknowledges it.. Its not about being a good pilot anymore its about who you know and how you play the game.

Here's an even worse example- my University flight program had an internship program with UAL. In 1991, we had recent grads with 450 hours TT who had never even flown anything larger than a Cessna 310, hired on at UAL, while there were thousands of Branniff, Eastern and Midway pilots available, to say nothing of those working for the "feeders" that shut down, too, like Midway Connection, Eastern Metro. Needless to say, nearly all of these UAL newhires were either the offspring of UAL pilots, or could check a box.

But back to AirTran's policy- I do not like it or agree with the logic behind it. As a former 91/135 guy I have a number of friends who I know would do great here, and I can't even get them an interview, which is disappointing, to say the least.

However, I can't apply at SWA, even though I have over 5000TT, a B737 type, 3200 Jet (still short on the 1000 Turbine PIC) while a King Air 90 guy who has never even flew in a crew situation, hasn't even gone over 250 KIAS, gets the nod . . . . do I agree with that? Of course not. Do I post angry rants about SWA? No. They can hire who they want. In the end, it's their sandbox.

 

[ultrarunner]

That requirement weeds out a whole bunch of 'protected class' pilots.

Good way to keep things pretty male and pretty white on the flight deck.

 

[Airpiraterob]

Might want to change that Avatar too. It's now the international symbol for choke.

nah thats the cardinals logo, the yanks actually won a game or two against em.

 

[GogglesPisano]

No offense to you 121 guys but I,ve have met a few dumb a$$es that have become 121 captains only because of seniority not for brains, common sense the fact they are the dumbest sons of biatchs ever to bless the cockpit. I don,t agree with this requirement but hey I,m just another disgruntled 135 pilot. There are alot of 135/corporate pilots out there with a ton of experience most 121 guys would never get and will never have . I say fair chance to all with the right experience...

There are plenty of retards who have managed their way into corporate flight departments because they happen to be someone's nephew. In the 121 environment, you still have to pass a rigid checkride in order to be PIC -- notwithstanding seniority.

I see their reasoning: 121 experience means you generally fly more take-offs and landings into busier airports. You have experience dealing with ATC delays, CRM, FA's, unions, schedulers, dispatchers, 121 regs, Feds in the jumpseat ... It is a more similar environment to what Air Tran pilots work in than corporate.

(Since I have 2500 hours 121 PIC Jet, I think it's an outstanding requirement)

 

[ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by ultrarunner

"...That requirement weeds out a whole bunch of 'protected class' pilots. Good way to keep things pretty male and pretty white on the flight deck..."


Are you serious? if so, you're a sad, sad man.


You're darn right I am serious. HOWEVER, I do NOT in ANY WAY WHAT SO EVER agree with this policy. I was just simply stating that fact this this policy will in fact keep the flight deck very white and very male.

Do you disagree? Or do you feel that this policy will ENHANCE a diverse flight deck.

Don't freaking jump on me dude.

Are you serious? if so, you're a sad, sad man.

 

[TWA Dude]

twadude........wow I,m surprised . You sound more than qualified

Thanks, that gave me a chuckle. Of course I'm qualified as are most of us but that doesn't matter. The word "qualified" is very a very debatable quality. Dorks get hired everywhere because they interview well and greats guys don't because they blow the interview. It's all just a game: impress the interviewers and get the job. I wish I could say that if I were the interviewer I'd do a better job but the fact is I'm sure it's extrememly difficult. (Not that I forgive them for making bonehead decisions!)

And BTW, having several thousand hours more than the next guy doesn't doesn't translate to being more qualified. Just ask any FO his/her opinion of some of the captains s/he flies with.

 

[DonVerita]

Come on over to jetblue!

Are you serious?

The last time I checked, Jet Blue wanted 1000 PIC 121 turbine, which is 500 more than what AirTran asks for.

Not that it makes a difference. What's 500 among friends? Unfortunately it excludes a lot of qualified people. Why not make it 2000? Will it change anything? NO. Either you're a good pilot or you're not. Going from 500 PIC to 1000 PIC doesn't amount to anything except extra writer's cramp in your logbook.

 

[jetdawg]

I may not agree with the 500 hours but like someone mentioned it is suppply and demand. Back when I was looking for a cummuter job with 2900 hours 200 turbine and 1500 multi American Eagle sent me back a letter saying I did not meet competive qualifications. This with just a look at my resume.


What about the majors saying he or She flew with the military they must be better than cizilian pilots.

 

[Bill Nelson]

The requirement is NOT hard and fast. I have a friend who interviewed about 6 weeks ago and doesn't have any 121 time and is civilian only background.

(He has a buddy who is in the training department so maybe that was the deciding qualification)

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

Ok, here's the reason for AirTran 500 121PIC requirement:



AirTran training and especially checking is very intense...that is doubled when you go through upgrade. Reason: in early days of VJ quite a few DC9's were banged up by not very sharp people. (trying to be nice here)



Due to that (new) rigid training and checking AirTran failure rate for new hires and upgrades started to soar. So a little research was done to see who was passing and who was failing training. And among other things, one common denominator among most of those who had problem in training was---no 121 PIC time. Now that’s one variable AirTran figured they could control.



As AirTran is a low cost carrier, everything is directly transferred into expense or profit. This requirement thought to get read of that additional expense. Just numbers, no personal feeling involved.



Now, I personally disagree with this policy, simply because if it was implemented a year early I would still be an FO at a regional. I also have tons of friends who do not meet the new requirements, and as much as I've tried, there is nothing I can do for them.

 

[doer42]

Are you serious?

The last time I checked, Jet Blue wanted 1000 PIC 121 turbine, which is 500 more than what AirTran asks for.

I don't see on JB's website that they require 1000 PIC 121 turbine...from the website, the requirements are:

• 1500 hours total time in airplanes (excluded: Helicopter, Simulator, Flight Engineer time)
• 1000 hours turbine in airplanes
• 1000 hours Pilot in Command Time*
• 1000 hours in airplanes at or above 20,000 pounds (maximum takeoff weight)

* PIC logged IAW FAR part 1, *Jetblue will only consider PIC time when the Pilot has signed for the aircraft.

And no, I don't work for JB.

 

[Benhuntn]

Too Bad

I would say, in response to your question, " what should non 121 pilots do". Fly for a commuter and get 500 and then join AirTran. Boy now that was easy. Rather than argue the merits of their policy just meet their needs and the issue is gone. If you whine about 500 PIC now you will be whining about a ton of things you don't like later. OOPs I need to get off my soap box the wife wants it to reach a high shelf.